HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
I thought my pulse oximeter was detecting red electrons
Petition to request parliament review LTNs
- Thread starter ianarmstrong
- Start date
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Insult? I haven't made one insult in my post, let alone "hurled" them.Wow so pleasant and friendly - can you hold a discussion without hurling insults?
This was probably what I had heard about - new regulations for EV charge points last year
Many of the lampposts in my road in Lambeth have been converted to EV charge points and Lambeth plan to roll out many more EV charge points as part of their kerbside strategy in the next few years.
"everyone will do this" - the vast majority of people are law abiding and don't want to get a criminal record so I don't accept that everyone will do this as the EV charge points will be designed to charge faster that a standard plug and they are positioned on the outside of the property thus removing the need to run a cable from inside the house to the outside - only a minority of people are likely to want to circumvent things.
Sadiq Khan is talking about road pricing in London as he wants to shore up TFL and keep it from going bankrupt as fewer people are using the buses and tubes - his keenness to expand ULEZ to cover all of London has been exposed as a want to get ANPR cameras installed ready for road charging
The charging point regs do not do anything of what you want them to be able to in terms of tax. There's no record of how much of the electricity used goes through the charge point for a start. Smart grids will mean that the charge point and the grid can talk to each other and the grid can say to the charge point "now is a good time to charge" or "please don't charge now if you can avoid it" and the charge point can respond.
One of the plans for using EVs on a smart grid is to have their batteries as a distributed storage system, so you can charge up at night when electricity is cheap, maybe even free, and then sell back to the grid when during the day or evening when it's expensive, or just use the electricity in your house directly yourself.
Obviously none of that could work of you were whacking a huge tax on the electricity going to an EV.
EVs do 2-4 miles per kwh. Current fuel duty is about 6p per mile based on 40mpg so that means you need to add 12p-24p per kwh if I've done the maths right.
That's getting on for doubling the cost compared to just running an extension cord off a normal socket, especially once the current prices fall back down over the next year.
Of course it doesn't matter because you can't apply the tax like that anyway, but even if you could... Well let's just look at red diesel fraud shall we?
"HM Revenue and Customs’ latest published estimate of the fraudulent use of red diesel in Great Britain is 1% of the market share, and for Northern Ireland, 4% of the market share. This results in a total UK duty and VAT loss of an estimated £150 million for the tax year 2020-21."
And around 15% of diesel sold is red diesel.
Red Diesel Rule Changes from 1 April 2022
From 1 April 2022, changes to UK law mean that many people and businesses who use red diesel (AKA rebated fuel; gas oil; tractor diesel) will need to switch to more costly white diesel, which carries the full Fuel Duty rate.
www.fuelproof.co.uk
So 1/15th of red diesel is used fraudulently... That's a huge chunk and it's easy to detect and enforce. There would be no way of telling or enforcing people used their "legal" electricity, and drivers as a group are not majority law abiding as more than half admit to speeding.
And if running an extension bothered you, you could just get an external socket fitted next to your ev charge point which you could use. Charging speed doesn't matter when you've got all night, home charging sockets are not the 60kw fast charging beasts that public chargers can be.
So your idea doesn't work technically and is far too easy to bypass anyway plus with no way to enforce it nobody is going to worry about criminal records.
maomao
普費斯
So your plan is let TFL collapse and people can drive where they like? Something tells me that your repeated claim this is in the interest of the less well-off isn't completely sincere.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Of course, let TfL go bust so that everyone is forced to use a car, that's going to make it so much easier for you to drive around isn't it?
And tough luck to those who can't afford a car or taxi or can't drive....
Are you for real?
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I'd rather TFL concentrated on their essential services such as running public transport as efficiently as possible and look to extend bus services to cover areas that are not well served and stop supporting councils blocking side streets as that creates congestion on bus routes that TFL are responsible for
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
surely not
liquidindian
Hello
Where's this petition?
TFL manages public transport and main roads in London, and has a target that 80% of all journeys will be made on foot, by cycle or using public transport by 2041. Reducing road capacity has to be part of meeting that target, and I'm not sure Ian's List of Suggestions is going to cut it.
klang
klang
Crazy innit
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
To be honest, if it was up to me, I'd ban the fuck out of all cars without a disabled badge in the most polluted areas - with the exception of delivery drivers and widely available, free public transport.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Do the Japanese thing and have the fuzz check your house for a valid parking spot and charging space if you’ve got an electric motor. No on street parking allowed 
ianarmstrong
Active Member
All of the charge points outside of the home could apply some VED type charge and the government would need to figure out how to account for home charge points in a similar way - there will always be people who try to avoid paying tax and there will be ways of detecting them such as cable running from the home to the car parked in the road - you will never stop everyone trying to evade tax but I'd say it would be better to go down that route than require ANPR cameras to be installed all over the UKInsult? I haven't made one insult in my post, let alone "hurled" them.
The charging point regs do not do anything of what you want them to be able to in terms of tax. There's no record of how much of the electricity used goes through the charge point for a start. Smart grids will mean that the charge point and the grid can talk to each other and the grid can say to the charge point "now is a good time to charge" or "please don't charge now if you can avoid it" and the charge point can respond.
One of the plans for using EVs on a smart grid is to have their batteries as a distributed storage system, so you can charge up at night when electricity is cheap, maybe even free, and then sell back to the grid when during the day or evening when it's expensive, or just use the electricity in your house directly yourself.
Obviously none of that could work of you were whacking a huge tax on the electricity going to an EV.
EVs do 2-4 miles per kwh. Current fuel duty is about 6p per mile based on 40mpg so that means you need to add 12p-24p per kwh if I've done the maths right.
That's getting on for doubling the cost compared to just running an extension cord off a normal socket, especially once the current prices fall back down over the next year.
Of course it doesn't matter because you can't apply the tax like that anyway, but even if you could... Well let's just look at red diesel fraud shall we?
"HM Revenue and Customs’ latest published estimate of the fraudulent use of red diesel in Great Britain is 1% of the market share, and for Northern Ireland, 4% of the market share. This results in a total UK duty and VAT loss of an estimated £150 million for the tax year 2020-21."
And around 15% of diesel sold is red diesel.
Red Diesel Rule Changes from 1 April 2022
From 1 April 2022, changes to UK law mean that many people and businesses who use red diesel (AKA rebated fuel; gas oil; tractor diesel) will need to switch to more costly white diesel, which carries the full Fuel Duty rate.www.fuelproof.co.uk
So 1/15th of red diesel is used fraudulently... That's a huge chunk and it's easy to detect and enforce. There would be no way of telling or enforcing people used their "legal" electricity, and drivers as a group are not majority law abiding as more than half admit to speeding.
And if running an extension bothered you, you could just get an external socket fitted next to your ev charge point which you could use. Charging speed doesn't matter when you've got all night, home charging sockets are not the 60kw fast charging beasts that public chargers can be.
So your idea doesn't work technically and is far too easy to bypass anyway plus with no way to enforce it nobody is going to worry about criminal records.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Sadiq Khan keeps saying TFL have no money and has to go to the government for a bailout every year so they should curtail some of their plans to spend money and stick to running public transport and keeping the traffic moving on the roads they are responsible for.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
And LTNs make congestion worse
liquidindian
Hello
I'm not sure some sort of inspector coming round your house to see what you've got plugged in would go down well with sort of people who are signing this petition, Ian.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I'd question the remit of TFL on that
We have smart meters so I'm sure they can develop smart EV charge meters that tell the supplier how much electricity has been used for an EV/hybrid connected vehicle and add an EV fuel duty cost to the bill the consumer pays - that would be much easier than installing ANPR cameras everywhere across the UK
liquidindian
Hello
And we're back to What Ian Reckons. What about the research? No, that's research from Imperial College, who are all biased and use bad data. Is there any research to the contrary? No, Ian shouldn't have to do that. And so the cycle continues.
maomao
普費斯
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maomao
普費斯
No. The only allowable data is a fifteen minute clip of that man with a whiteboard. All other data is cherry-picked.
liquidindian
Hello
I took it from their about page on their website.
Wait, hang on, I didn't realise you were sure they could this. I had my doubts but now I know Ian's sure...
liquidindian
Hello
If you're hoping for the congestion of clauses to evaporate, you're out of luck. I don't know if it's a conspiracist thing, or if they learn it in closed facebook groups, or what. But every sentence has to go something like "How can you be in favour of these illegal LTNs that are an abuse of power and displace traffic to boundary roads where poorer people live causing extra congestion while people in LTNs drive their cars on our roads and on and on and on and onGrammarly's Complete Punctuation Guide
Whether you're looking for a grammar checker or just want to brush up on grammar rules, we have you covered.www.grammarly.com
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Look he’s out in the mean streets every day and he doesn’t need no experts or statistics just mark one eyeball to tell him the LTNs caused him to be in traffic.
Nothing to do with the several hundred percent increase in cars on road over last few decades
Nothing to do with the several hundred percent increase in cars on road over last few decades
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
All the houses on my estate that have electric cars charge them in their driveways, with the sole exception of the guy with the white Golf who drapes an extension lead out of his kitchen window, they all have EV charge points.
My electric smart meter has a built in sim that it uses to tell its masters about my electric and gas usage (gas meter talks to the electric via wifi). You could put a similar one in every EV car point that also sends back usage information but why? Why should someone pay more money for the kwh that ends up in their car rather than their washing machine (or weed grow for that matter) doesn't cost any more to generate.
And if for some reason they did it's dead easy to beat just hang the extension lead out of the window or get an outside socket. I've got a double socket on the outside of the garage wall which I use for Mrs Q's fountains, the mower and the Foreman grill, I could easily put one on the front and charge an electric car (if I had one) in the drive. You can't put a meter in every socket and you can't tell what sort of device is using the current.
As for LTN's I don't live in London so not a big issue to me if Londoners are getting hot under the collar about sitting longer in traffic, it's your own fault for living there. The estate I live on has no through roads, the two entrances to it are on the same main road half a mile apart. Any traffic on the estate is either residents, deliveries or visitors. It's very nice like that I can see the point of trying to make it a bit more like that in bigger cities. What's wrong with a car journey taking a bit longer? you're sat there in comfort, listening to your own choice of music. Seems worth it for not having to dodge traffic outside your front door in a residential area.
My electric smart meter has a built in sim that it uses to tell its masters about my electric and gas usage (gas meter talks to the electric via wifi). You could put a similar one in every EV car point that also sends back usage information but why? Why should someone pay more money for the kwh that ends up in their car rather than their washing machine (or weed grow for that matter) doesn't cost any more to generate.
And if for some reason they did it's dead easy to beat just hang the extension lead out of the window or get an outside socket. I've got a double socket on the outside of the garage wall which I use for Mrs Q's fountains, the mower and the Foreman grill, I could easily put one on the front and charge an electric car (if I had one) in the drive. You can't put a meter in every socket and you can't tell what sort of device is using the current.
As for LTN's I don't live in London so not a big issue to me if Londoners are getting hot under the collar about sitting longer in traffic, it's your own fault for living there. The estate I live on has no through roads, the two entrances to it are on the same main road half a mile apart. Any traffic on the estate is either residents, deliveries or visitors. It's very nice like that I can see the point of trying to make it a bit more like that in bigger cities. What's wrong with a car journey taking a bit longer? you're sat there in comfort, listening to your own choice of music. Seems worth it for not having to dodge traffic outside your front door in a residential area.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with teuchter what is the world coming to?
liquidindian
Hello
klang
klang
ffy
maomao
普費斯
It reminds me of my mate Dan who Reckons the government must want us to smoke weed because otherwise they'd just invent a herbicide that would kill all the cannabis in the world because that sounds easy.
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