Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[Artaxerxes]

Spying on me with rays! Millennium hand and shrimp

 

[ianarmstrong]

Did you make this up?

Nope I've read or heard it somewhere but can't recall where - something about home charging equipment being required to have something to signify it is an EV charging point that is extracting electric from the home supply so that the supplier knows it is supplying electric to an EV charge point

 

[pesh]

i'm calling bollocks.

 

[liquidindian]

Nope I've read or heard it somewhere but can't recall where - something about home charging equipment being required to have something to signify it is an EV charging point that is extracting electric from the home supply so that the supplier knows it is supplying electric to an EV charge point

It'll be one of the Facebook groups. Sadiq Khan probably demanded it.

 

[BigTom]

Fuel duty has to be a better way to do this as the other option requires ANPR cameras to be installed everywhere across the country and an infrastructure to implement the charging scheme - why waste all that resource when there is an existing system that essentially does the same thing already. VAT on your home electric is essentially fulfilling that requirement too it would seem as the more electric you use to charge your vehicle the more VAT you will pay. The government just need to figure out how to impose a pay per mile charge rate via VED or VAT or some other tax at the point where you buy the fuel for your vehicle

You can't do this.

Your plan will mean taxing people for all the externalities of car use when they are heating their home, cooking food, turning on lights or all the other essential things we use electricity for.

And the external costs of car use are huge, from road maintenance to policing to collisions to the costs of inactivity and air pollution to the nhs and no doubt more I'm not thinking of right now.

All you need to do is run an extension from a standard house socket to charge your EV. Everyone will do this if it's more expensive to charge from a specific socket. You are being extremely, maybe purposefully, naive if you think otherwise.

Unless you can produce something that shows you can distinguish what electricity is used for for tax purposes.

 

[Winot]

They’re going to force the EV industry to make the cars only work on red electrons. Then they’ll be able to tell.

 

[maomao]

Did you make this up?

It's all made up. Just like the misspelled survey.

 

[ianarmstrong]

You can't do this.

Your plan will mean taxing people for all the externalities of car use when they are heating their home, cooking food, turning on lights or all the other essential things we use electricity for.

And the external costs of car use are huge, from road maintenance to policing to collisions to the costs of inactivity and air pollution to the nhs and no doubt more I'm not thinking of right now.

All you need to do is run an extension from a standard house socket to charge your EV. Everyone will do this if it's more expensive to charge from a specific socket. You are being extremely, maybe purposefully, naive if you think otherwise.

Unless you can produce something that shows you can distinguish what electricity is used for for tax purposes.

I'm pretty sure I saw something about EV home charge points needing to be adjusted to enable the supplier to know when they are supplying to such a charge point and that should enable them to add any relevant fuel duty charge for electricity used to charge EVs/hybrids then the government just need to sync up the fuel duty charged at the pump with the EV/hybrid charge point fuel duty and you have a pay per mileage charge without the need to install ANPR cameras everywhere and all the infrastructure to support that. Some people will circumvent this by plugging into the mains but it will be quite obvious I would have thought from the amount of electricity being pulled from the system overnight and councils could impose fines of households running electrical leads into the road to feed their vehicle as that is a safety hazard.

 

[pesh]

why don't you go off and find the something.

 

[klang]

People will just blame their high electricity usage on their marijuana farms in their lofts.

 

[BigTom]

I'm pretty sure I saw something about EV home charge points needing to be adjusted to enable the supplier to know when they are supplying to such a charge point and that should enable them to add any relevant fuel duty charge for electricity used to charge EVs/hybrids then the government just need to sync up the fuel duty charged at the pump with the EV/hybrid charge point fuel duty and you have a pay per mileage charge without the need to install ANPR cameras everywhere and all the infrastructure to support that. Some people will circumvent this by plugging into the mains but it will be quite obvious I would have thought from the amount of electricity being pulled from the system overnight and councils could impose fines of households running electrical leads into the road to feed their vehicle as that is a safety hazard.

Yeah. I'm not going to take your word for it. Find it or accept that you don't know what you read or saw and are wrong about this. If it was that easy, why would everyone be talking about the need for road pricing once EVs take over from ICE? It should be simple for you to find sources to show this is technically possible to do. If you can't then you need to accept that you are wrong, that you've misunderstood what was said or simply been lied to.

It won't be obvious at all, or there wouldn't be any weed grows. You cannot tell the difference between someone heating their house overnight, running a bitcoin mine, growing weed, keeping lizards, or charging an EV. There's loads of things that pull a high draw and it's not possible to distinguish between them.

"some people" - everyone will do this. Or do you think that for instance the red diesel situation is barely abused by farmers etc? You cannot be that naive, surely.

Council's can't do that btw, firstly there's all the people with driveways and secondly all you need to do is have some trunking to cover your cable and it's not a safety hazard. So in this plan the wealthy people with off road parking get to drive tax free whilst us plebs without it have to pay through the nose for everything right?

 

[BigTom]

People will just blame their high electricity usage on their marijuana farms in their lofts.

bitcoin mine these days mate.

 

[MickiQ]

I'm pretty sure I saw something about EV home charge points needing to be adjusted to enable the supplier to know when they are supplying to such a charge point and that should enable them to add any relevant fuel duty charge for electricity used to charge EVs/hybrids then the government just need to sync up the fuel duty charged at the pump with the EV/hybrid charge point fuel duty and you have a pay per mileage charge without the need to install ANPR cameras everywhere and all the infrastructure to support that. Some people will circumvent this by plugging into the mains but it will be quite obvious I would have thought from the amount of electricity being pulled from the system overnight and councils could impose fines of households running electrical leads into the road to feed their vehicle as that is a safety hazard.

A dedicated home charger draws 7kw, an induction hob draws the same there is no way to tell which is which remotely. Someone using their washing machine and dishwasher whilst watching the TV would draw about the same. The sole advantage of home chargers over plugging into a socket is time. Plugging it into the mains draws 2kw so you need all night rather than giving it a couple of hours.
Energy suppliers do ask if you have an electric car but is purely so they can take a stab at calculating your DD and offering the right tariff

 

[liquidindian]

Thinking about it, I think he's just confused about the plan to tax EVs via VED from 2025.

 

[A380]

I'm pretty sure I saw something…

Is that how you reference sources at the University of Life (faculty of common sense)? Well, I’m convinced.

 

[teuchter]

There's not a need to have millions of anpr cameras to do road pricing. The data would be recorded in the vehicle.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Yeah. I'm not going to take your word for it. Find it or accept that you don't know what you read or saw and are wrong about this. If it was that easy, why would everyone be talking about the need for road pricing once EVs take over from ICE? It should be simple for you to find sources to show this is technically possible to do. If you can't then you need to accept that you are wrong, that you've misunderstood what was said or simply been lied to.

It won't be obvious at all, or there wouldn't be any weed grows. You cannot tell the difference between someone heating their house overnight, running a bitcoin mine, growing weed, keeping lizards, or charging an EV. There's loads of things that pull a high draw and it's not possible to distinguish between them.

"some people" - everyone will do this. Or do you think that for instance the red diesel situation is barely abused by farmers etc? You cannot be that naive, surely.

Council's can't do that btw, firstly there's all the people with driveways and secondly all you need to do is have some trunking to cover your cable and it's not a safety hazard. So in this plan the wealthy people with off road parking get to drive tax free whilst us plebs without it have to pay through the nose for everything right?

Wow so pleasant and friendly - can you hold a discussion without hurling insults?

This was probably what I had heard about - new regulations for EV charge points last year

Regulations: electric vehicle smart charge points

Guidance for sellers.

www.gov.uk

Many of the lampposts in my road in Lambeth have been converted to EV charge points and Lambeth plan to roll out many more EV charge points as part of their kerbside strategy in the next few years.

"everyone will do this" - the vast majority of people are law abiding and don't want to get a criminal record so I don't accept that everyone will do this as the EV charge points will be designed to charge faster that a standard plug and they are positioned on the outside of the property thus removing the need to run a cable from inside the house to the outside - only a minority of people are likely to want to circumvent things.

Sadiq Khan is talking about road pricing in London as he wants to shore up TFL and keep it from going bankrupt as fewer people are using the buses and tubes - his keenness to expand ULEZ to cover all of London has been exposed as a want to get ANPR cameras installed ready for road charging

 

[ianarmstrong]

There's not a need to have millions of anpr cameras to do road pricing. The data would be recorded in the vehicle.

That's not how Sadiq Khan is planning to impost though is it as he cannot force everyone to install something in their vehicle - he is planning to use the ULEZ ANPR cameras to implement road charges

 

[8ball]

That's not how Sadiq Khan is planning to impost though is it as he cannot force everyone to install something in their vehicle - he is planning to use the ULEZ ANPR cameras to implement road charges

Look, Mr Ian Armstrong, IF THAT’S EVEN YOUR REAL NAME!!!

There are people here who have taken on crippling mortgages to move into a decent school catchment area, and without the lift effect of some bollards at one end of their road are running a serious risk of negative equity, what with the way things are going.

I think you know where the door is.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Look, Mr Ian Armstrong, IF THAT’S EVEN YOUR REAL NAME!!!

There are people here who have taken on crippling mortgages to move into a decent school catchment area, and without the lift effect of some bollards at one end of their road are running a serious risk of negative equity, what with the way things are going.

I think you know where the door is.

Ok Mr 8ball just ignore this thread and my posts if it irks you so much

 

[SpookyFrank]

They’re going to force the EV industry to make the cars only work on red electrons. Then they’ll be able to tell.

You cannot have 'red electrons' because what we perceive as red is a mere artefact of excited electrons changing energy states. Although there are specific energy state shifts which produce radiation in the frequency range we would identify as red light, all the actual electrons involved are identical to those which in different states of excitation might produce blue light, or radio waves, or X-rays.

Electrons themselves are colourless on account of their being several orders of magnitude smaller than the wavelength of visible light, and therefore unable to reflect it.

 

[8ball]

You cannot have 'red electrons' because what we perceive as red is a mere artefact of excited electrons changing energy states. Although there are specific energy state shifts which produce radiation in the frequency range we would identify as red light, all the actual electrons involved are identical to those which in different states of excitation might produce blue light, or radio waves, or X-rays.

Electrons themselves are colourless on account of their being several orders of magnitude smaller than the wavelength of visible light, and therefore unable to reflect it.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Winot]

Yeah or they’ll just add red dye to the electricity.

 

[8ball]

Yeah or they’ll just add red dye to the electricity.

Bloody farmers.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

You cannot have 'red electrons' because what we perceive as red is a mere artefact of excited electrons changing energy states. Although there are specific energy state shifts which produce radiation in the frequency range we would identify as red light, all the actual electrons involved are identical to those which in different states of excitation might produce blue light, or radio waves, or X-rays.

Electrons themselves are colourless on account of their being several orders of magnitude smaller than the wavelength of visible light, and therefore unable to reflect it.

pah
feckin bloody (red) facts

 

[8ball]

pah
feckin bloody (red) facts

We will counter them with our own blue facts.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

We will counter them with our own blue facts.

blue is the colour of electricity IIRC, so there

 

[8ball]

blue is the colour of electricity IIRC, so there

Yep. Electricity, large bodies of water and rejection.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Yep. Electricity, large bodies of water and rejection.

I didn't know about rejection: "bans blue from palette"

 

[teuchter]

Sadiq Khan is talking about road pricing in London as he wants to shore up TFL and keep it from going bankrupt as fewer people are using the buses and tubes - his keenness to expand ULEZ to cover all of London has been exposed as a want to get ANPR cameras installed ready for road charging

I guess keeping TfL from going bankrupt is not on your 20-point plan for things to do instead of LTNs then, or perhaps you are going to plant magic money trees to deal with this.