hash tag
Reaching out
Maybe discourage private car use.
Petition to request parliament review LTNs
- Thread starter ianarmstrong
- Start date
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Maybe also encourage multi-occupancy when using private cars.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Private car use is not the main culprit of air pollution that everyone seems to think - there are many more sources that are bigger polluters as this article highlights
‘It’s disgraceful to single out the car as the cause of air pollution’ | Auto Express
Mike Rutherford has compiled a league table of the worst air polluters, and the car doesn't feature in the top five
www.autoexpress.co.uk
liquidindian
Hello
If you split transport down further, and take each single car individually, they barely figure on the league table at all.
hash tag
Reaching out
Rutherford has a vested interest and also how many of those "worst polluters" do you find in central land? Farming, energy production....for the whole country that might be true, especially as there are less cars in the countryside. Look at inner city figures only and I am sure you will get an entirely different picture.Private car use is not the main culprit of air pollution that everyone seems to think - there are many more sources that are bigger polluters as this article highlights
‘It’s disgraceful to single out the car as the cause of air pollution’ | Auto Express
Mike Rutherford has compiled a league table of the worst air polluters, and the car doesn't feature in the top five
Most polluted roads in the country are in London, inc., Wandsworth.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
So you agree with the thrust of the article then it seems.
Private car ownership in London has been dropping of late but other vehicles used to services people's lifestyles have been increasing as society seems obsessed with having stuff delivered to their homes.
The most polluting roads in London are being made worse by LTN congestion born out by the LTN councils own limited monitoring data - I see that both teams turned up late for tonight's match at Spurs - wonder what might have caused that!
liquidindian
Hello
You mean like their persons, delivered to their homes in minicabs?
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Not really as that is not a new thing is it Mr Liquid? The thing that is relatively new are deliveries from companies such as Amazon or Deliveroo, etc where people buy things on the internet to be delivered the next day by motor vehicle or they order stuff to be delivered from their corner shop by moped - those motor vehicle deliveries have been increasing at a rapid rate in recent years - go by any McDonalds in central London and you will find a posse of mopeds waiting for the next delivery to someone who lives round the corner - those local delivery companies should be required to offer a non motor vehicle delivery option to their customers so the more discerning customers would select a more sustainable delivery option
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liquidindian
Hello
You're all in the delivery business, and if there's a problem, you're all part of it.
Despite a dip in the last couple of years there are twice as many minicabs in London as there were in 2005. You just notice the green boxes on bikes and mopeds more because they're different and new.
Come on Ian, hydrogen cars are actually a thing - you should really be advocating for nuclear cold fusion powered cars.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I don't have a problem with Uber numbers being curtailed as that is a parasitic organisation collecting their revenue from drivers via a bank in another European country and thus paying little or no tax on those earnings to the UK economy. Curtailing the number of Ubers permitted to ply their trade in London is up to Sadiq Khan and TFL but they have a conflict of interest as they generate revenue from every driver application and licence renewal and every annual vehicle inspection. The only people who could curtail delivery vehicle numbers would be the people ordering things off of Amazon and from companies like Deliveroo but as I have outlined those mopeds could be switched to EVs or bikes to reduce emissions pollution. All cabs in London will be EVs/Hybrids by the end of 2028 so vehicle emissions pollution in London will continue to fall - no thanks to LTNs.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Hydrogen cars are a thing if you were suggesting they weren't
An introduction to hydrogen vehicles. How they work
HOW DO HYDROGEN CARS WORK HYDROGEN CARS: faster refuelling, no harmful emissions, an impressive range 300 miles per tank, good efficiency levels
www.hydrogenhub.org
liquidindian
Hello
You're asking for things that are already happening Amazon UK adds e-cargo bikes, walkers in decarbonisation drive
I personally am not keen on many of these businesses because I don't think they're viable without VC investment, exploiting workers, or both, and there's a chance they might be a short-lived phenomenon.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
fairly sure that's not the case - there have been rumblings from TFL / GLA (this from 2011 was first to surface) about restricting the number of private hire vehicles in London (and the idea gets floated elsewhere now and then as well) but this would require a change in the law which is up to westminster.
Licensing authorities can set standards for PHV's but not a quantity limit, either overall, or for one particular operator.
Taxi (hackney carriage and private hire) law is all a bit lumpy - while the 'bale of hay' requirement is an urban myth, some of it goes back to the mid 19th century, and almost all of it was written before mobile phones, let alone apps, were a thing. there was an attempt to set up a review of the whole thing a good few years back, but think it got kicked in to touch with brexit taking up a lot of politicians and whitehall's time, and it hasn't come back to the surface yet.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
They also extract revenue from the TfL's public transport farebox.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Private car use is not the main culprit of air pollution that everyone seems to think - there are many more sources that are bigger polluters as this article highlights
‘It’s disgraceful to single out the car as the cause of air pollution’ | Auto Express
Mike Rutherford has compiled a league table of the worst air polluters, and the car doesn't feature in the top five
So is air pollution from cars an issue we need to deal with or isn't it?
Because first you say it's not a big problem, and then you claim it's a reason why LTNs should be abandoned.
Hydrogen cars are a thing if you were suggesting they weren't
An introduction to hydrogen vehicles. How they work
HOW DO HYDROGEN CARS WORK HYDROGEN CARS: faster refuelling, no harmful emissions, an impressive range 300 miles per tank, good efficiency levelswww.hydrogenhub.org
Oh dear
maomao
普費斯
That list is made-up nonsense. Ambulances are in the same category as commercial vehicles and buses, but taxis, which exclusively drive private citizens, have been separated from other private cars to reduce the size of the category. Utter horseshit.Private car use is not the main culprit of air pollution that everyone seems to think - there are many more sources that are bigger polluters as this article highlights
‘It’s disgraceful to single out the car as the cause of air pollution’ | Auto Express
Mike Rutherford has compiled a league table of the worst air polluters, and the car doesn't feature in the top five
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maomao
普費斯
I thought you were a minicab driver? Ubers are minicabs. There's no difference other than the profits go to some Californian tech twat rather than up some East London hardman's nose.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
liquidindian
Hello
ianarmstrong ! You got what you wanted!
The Department has appointed the University of Westminster to undertake an independent evaluation of active travel schemes funded in 2020/21, including low-traffic neighbourhoods.
It turns out they were doing this anyway and the petition didn't matter, but still, well done.
The Department has appointed the University of Westminster to undertake an independent evaluation of active travel schemes funded in 2020/21, including low-traffic neighbourhoods.
It turns out they were doing this anyway and the petition didn't matter, but still, well done.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
No you don't seem to understand - I am saying pollution from motor vehicles is being addressed but LTNs cause more pollution as they force drivers to drive more miles and they create congestion on the boundary roads
ianarmstrong
Active Member
That's not going to be an unbiased review though is it as it will be led by Rachel Aldred who is very much an LTN supporter and advocate
liquidindian
Hello
That must be disappointing. All of those nextdoor posts, Facebook posts, arguments, all that time and effort to get what you want and when you get it it turns out you don't want it after all. Must seem like a giant waste of time.
So now this is done and all the court cases are exhausted, what's the next pointless wheeze?
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
To paraphrase Einstein, I don't know what will replace EVs but I know what will come after that will be bicycles and horses.
“No, not that kind of research”
Leafster
.
Home delivery of stuff has always been a thing. It's just the method of ordering has changed (and perhaps, in some cases, what's being delivered). People would order stuff from catalogues. We had milkmen. Local shops would deliver.
It possibly fell out of favour with the growth of car ownership and more women entering the workforce. The growth of car ownership resulted in larger more centralised retail outlets - supermarkets and later, retail parks for example. More women going out to work resulted in fewer people being able to accept deliveries in normal working hours.
The ability to use the internet for ordering, out of hours deliveries and tighter delivery windows together with a change in working patterns resulted in people being at home more has seen an increase in home deliveries.
I agree that the vehicles used for these deliveries needs a massive rethink. It's not like there aren't alternatives to fossil fuel powered vehicles. They've been around for years. There used to be large fleets of electric milk floats. There were delivery boys on bicycles and even at the very start of the 20th century there were other electric delivery vehicles (for example, Harrods used them from around 1900 and on into the 1920s IIRC).
Even now there are cargo bikes, e-cargo bikes, electric mopeds and electric vans which could be used more but they aren't. I have had home deliveries by e-van but they are rare. There needs to be legislation to encourage the use of zero-emission vehicles for the deliveries.
The other thing which has to change is to encourage people to get out and walk or cycle to their local shops to collect some of the stuff themselves so there's less need for some of the deliveries. I wonder how we could do that? Maybe discourage car use in certain places to make it a better environment to walk and cycle. I wonder what we could call them...
hash tag
Reaching out
One actively encourages people not to use amazon or deliveroo because of this and other reasons
This is a great little book https://www.waterstones.com/book/hired/james-bloodworth/9781786490162
bit more serious https://www.waterstones.com/book/ri...stance-in-the-new-econom-y/cant/9781509535507
This is also very good Sorry We Missed You - Wikipedia
How many people live more than a few minutes from a shop where they can buy most things. Where I live I am no more than a mile or so from
dozens of supermarkets. If you need a delivery, the Co Op is delivering by bike.
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