Petition to request parliament review LTNs

[Larry O'Hara]

That's what the active travel academics and councils imposing LTNs want you to think but they actually concentrate the traffic on certain residential roads which is not fare to the people who live or walk or work or go to school there - they also cause vehicles to have to drive longer distances and get caught up in increased congestion all of which is not great for the carbon footprint but then no one is monitoring that so there is no data on what LTNs do in that regard

“active travel academics”? A new hate group? Most academics idea of ‘active’ doesnt stretch beyond a grant funding application or checking Guardian online…

 

[bellaozzydog]

I walk often - play squash 2 or 3 times a week - when I was a kid I used to ride a bike everywhere - when I was a student I walked or got the bus everywhere - I live in central London so you tend to walk to the bus stop of the tube rather than walk miles - how about you?

You seem like a squash player

 

[hash tag]

This is the Winstanley ( by the back of Clapham Junction ), from street view, so a week or two back. It often used to look much worse than this.

This is the same spot today after aprking restrictions were introduced. Where have all the cars gone? I suspect many of them belonged to people from outlying areas who just saw this as
a convenient way to get to work. Hopefully, those people are now leaving their cars at home and using public transport all the way.

 

[xenon]

Fuck me this is rivoting stuff.
new game:

Describe in tedious detail a road near you. If anyone's still awake at the end, you lose.

 

[editor]

This anti LTN conspiracy loon is a bit special (you have highlight the text to read it, not that it's really worth the effort):

This is part of a worldwide agenda to control population. The idea is to get large numbers of people into cities and have total police state control of population. This is being done all over London and in most towns and cities around the UK. It is also happening rapidly in other countries. The main thing about this “Global Action Plan” is it is being implemented with no choice but with the appearance of public participation. You will be told that your opinion counts and given surveys with leading questions such as “How much more cycling do want”. Local businesses will be told they are being consulted, they are not.

This is being implemented rapidly and the contracts will have been signed with developers already. The public consultation is a facade.

Your “Community Hub” will be run by volunteers and trained Change Agents who will be spokespersons for the new plans which will be appearing in Local Newspapers, Council Leaflets and Propaganda newspapers given away as “Community News” run by “Community Interest Groups” and Companies. These will contain fluffy things about local artists and trivial stories but amongst the waffle will be the plans being forced through, described as being improvements or “regeneration”. There will be stories promoting the new developments and the core principles of the agenda which this article outlines. What you will not see are the views of real local people. Later in this article you will see how the Climate Change agenda of Co2 and fraudulent data by The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change fits in with the brainwashing, for instance every area in the UK also has its very own Climate Change Propaganda website Check out yours.

United Nations plan to destroy London

BIG SOCIETY CHANGE AGENTS First Posted on 15th September 2015 by Mark Windows This article is regularly updated What you will see in your local area and what is really happening behind the Green Propaganda… If you live in any kind of urban environment

phreedom.us

 

[nino_savatte]

This anti LTN conspiracy loon is a bit special (you have highlight the text to read it, not that it's really worth the effort):

United Nations plan to destroy London

BIG SOCIETY CHANGE AGENTS First Posted on 15th September 2015 by Mark Windows This article is regularly updated What you will see in your local area and what is really happening behind the Green Propaganda… If you live in any kind of urban environment

phreedom.us

I wouldn't be surprised if they had connections to the LM/RCP/Furedi lot.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Some fuxkers should have stuck to the beano and dandy when they were a kid rather than struggling with 2000AD

 

[ianarmstrong]

Home delivery of stuff has always been a thing. It's just the method of ordering has changed (and perhaps, in some cases, what's being delivered). People would order stuff from catalogues. We had milkmen. Local shops would deliver.

It possibly fell out of favour with the growth of car ownership and more women entering the workforce. The growth of car ownership resulted in larger more centralised retail outlets - supermarkets and later, retail parks for example. More women going out to work resulted in fewer people being able to accept deliveries in normal working hours.

The ability to use the internet for ordering, out of hours deliveries and tighter delivery windows together with a change in working patterns resulted in people being at home more has seen an increase in home deliveries.

I agree that the vehicles used for these deliveries needs a massive rethink. It's not like there aren't alternatives to fossil fuel powered vehicles. They've been around for years. There used to be large fleets of electric milk floats. There were delivery boys on bicycles and even at the very start of the 20th century there were other electric delivery vehicles (for example, Harrods used them from around 1900 and on into the 1920s IIRC).

Even now there are cargo bikes, e-cargo bikes, electric mopeds and electric vans which could be used more but they aren't. I have had home deliveries by e-van but they are rare. There needs to be legislation to encourage the use of zero-emission vehicles for the deliveries.

The other thing which has to change is to encourage people to get out and walk or cycle to their local shops to collect some of the stuff themselves so there's less need for some of the deliveries. I wonder how we could do that? Maybe discourage car use in certain places to make it a better environment to walk and cycle. I wonder what we could call them...

True home delivery have been happening via various methods for many decades but the full on milk delivery rounds disappeared about 30+ years ago and I'd agree that we have seen takeaway deliveries for grow since then and there were catalogue deliveries too but they were much lower numbers than what we see now with the recent emergence of Amazon and companies like Deliveroo means that now virtually every restaurant/food outlet provides a takeaway service not just the ones who previously employed a driver - also the major shops have joined in the home delivery market as have any number of businesses and local shops such as corner shops who never delivered before except for maybe paper boys and some grocery stores.

I've suggested previously that these larger delivery companies, especially local food deliveries, should offer emissions free delivery options for customers to select and the companies should be incentivised by government or the council to do so.

LTNs are not being monitored to see if they are changing peoples driving habits which you would have thought should be one of the main things to assess and you would have thought miles driven by locals should also be something important to monitor or assess but the councils are not monitoring or assessing those things but then if they did they might find out they had made things worse not better!

Another thing the councils are not monitoring is the change in the carbon footprint of these initiatives which is odd as they are saying they are doing this now due to the climate emergency but there is zero assessment of this!

 

[ianarmstrong]

One actively encourages people not to use amazon or deliveroo because of this and other reasons
This is a great little book https://www.waterstones.com/book/hired/james-bloodworth/9781786490162
bit more serious https://www.waterstones.com/book/ri...stance-in-the-new-econom-y/cant/9781509535507
This is also very good Sorry We Missed You - Wikipedia

How many people live more than a few minutes from a shop where they can buy most things. Where I live I am no more than a mile or so from
dozens of supermarkets. If you need a delivery, the Co Op is delivering by bike.

I would say provide people with the options and the opportunity to pick the more sustainable thing to do and support it rather than try and force them into doing it by blocking roads and causing congestion and those that can will change and those that can't won't and those that don't want to won't but those people probably won't change no matter what restrictions you impose upon them but I would prefer to live in a society that has free choice and not one where we a re told what to do and restrictions are imposed upon us to force us to obey

 

[ianarmstrong]

That sounds like bunkum. Where's your evidence? I won't accept anything less than a scholarly source. Think you can find one?

Look at the LTN monitoring reports and they confirm the boundary roads have more traffic on them once the LTN internal toads are closed

 

[ianarmstrong]

Well all the evidence I've seen is that overall pollution is reduced by LTNs, so it's an overall benefit. I certainly agree that we then need to move on to other measures to reduce car use on the boundary roads where they experience higher pollution. I'm sure we won't agree on what those measures should be, but removing the LTNs will lead to more, not less, pollution.

Pollution from motor vehicles has been decreasing as a result of various measures started well before the covid LTNs began being imposed. All the LTN monitoring I've seen has been largely conducted using traffic count modelling where any traffic displaced outside the LTN is ignored and traffic traveling below 10kmh is not counted so it is cherry picked data which is also flawed

 

[rubbershoes]

free choice ......and not one where we are told what to do....... restrictions are imposed upon us....... force us to obey

ding ding ding

 

[ianarmstrong]

You seem like a squash player

Yes been playing for many decades but at about 10% of what I used to be capable of due to problems with my knees

 

[ianarmstrong]

ding ding ding

dong dong dong

 

[ianarmstrong]

This is the Winstanley ( by the back of Clapham Junction ), from street view, so a week or two back. It often used to look much worse than this.
View attachment 366206
This is the same spot today after aprking restrictions were introduced. Where have all the cars gone? I suspect many of them belonged to people from outlying areas who just saw this as
a convenient way to get to work. Hopefully, those people are now leaving their cars at home and using public transport all the way.

That is close to Clapham Junction station so no doubt people where parking to then walk to the station - everywhere is going to be CPZ it seems in the coming years - who knows what those people are doing now but also there may have been a negative impact on the local shops due to those people no longer walking by and making purchases - it would be good to understand more of the changes that these things cause and not just the change on traffic counts

 

[bellaozzydog]

Yes been playing for many decades but at about 10% of what I used to be capable of due to problems with my knees

Once you’d retired your trusty racket did you join CAMRA

 

[rubbershoes]

.

 

[hash tag]

That is close to Clapham Junction station so no doubt people where parking to then walk to the station - everywhere is going to be CPZ it seems in the coming years - who knows what those people are doing now but also there may have been a negative impact on the local shops due to those people no longer walking by and making purchases - it would be good to understand more of the changes that these things cause and not just the change on traffic counts

If you know the Winstanley you would know there are no shops there that you would want to visit. If the restrictions have encouraged people to use public transport all the way rather than use the Winstanley as a park and ride it's worked.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Once you’d retired your trusty racket did you join CAMRA

Cyclists are partial to the real ale btw. Motorists stick to fosters and carling.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Once you’d retired your trusty racket did you join CAMRA

I haven't retired - still pay 2 or 3 times a week but at a very much reduced level

 

[ianarmstrong]

If you know the Winstanley you would know there are no shops there that you would want to visit. If the restrictions have encouraged people to use public transport all the way rather than use the Winstanley as a park and ride it's worked.

Yep - I've got no problem with CPZs forcing commuter parking traffic out of the area and maybe that would be one way of reducing through traffic in an area rather than imposing an LTN as some of the through traffic will probably be people driving through areas in order to park up - it is something that would be worth assessing as Lambeth introduce CPZs to the rest of the borough to see if they really need to add more LTNs

 

[liquidindian]

I haven't retired - still pay 2 or 3 times a week but at a very much reduced level

Diluted squash.

 

[BigTom]

Pollution from motor vehicles has been decreasing as a result of various measures started well before the covid LTNs began being imposed. All the LTN monitoring I've seen has been largely conducted using traffic count modelling where any traffic displaced outside the LTN is ignored and traffic traveling below 10kmh is not counted so it is cherry picked data which is also flawed

Yes, other measures have also been reducing pollution.
Show is the evidence that LTNs have not.

I'm certain that there have been studies directly of air pollution levels, and you can compare areas which have had new LTNs installed against those that haven't to filter out compounding effects.
Possibly other people will post what I'm remembering before I'm at a computer to search for it.

But I'm sure you will just discount it anyway so I'm not sure there's any point.

 

[maomao]

"covid LTNs" lol

 

[8ball]

"covid LTNs" lol

The general loon community is almost as inventive as QAnon these days.

 

[ianarmstrong]

Yes, other measures have also been reducing pollution.
Show is the evidence that LTNs have not.

I'm certain that there have been studies directly of air pollution levels, and you can compare areas which have had new LTNs installed against those that haven't to filter out compounding effects.
Possibly other people will post what I'm remembering before I'm at a computer to search for it.

But I'm sure you will just discount it anyway so I'm not sure there's any point.

Council review reveals LTN scheme makes air pollution worse — The Consultation Institute

The level of a toxic car exhaust pollutant dropped across parts of south London following the scrapping of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN), according to a

www.consultationinstitute.org

 

[ianarmstrong]

Yes, other measures have also been reducing pollution.
Show is the evidence that LTNs have not.

I'm certain that there have been studies directly of air pollution levels, and you can compare areas which have had new LTNs installed against those that haven't to filter out compounding effects.
Possibly other people will post what I'm remembering before I'm at a computer to search for it.

But I'm sure you will just discount it anyway so I'm not sure there's any point.

The Waltham Forrest LTNs helped to make Newham the 2nd worst borough in London for air quality

Newham Has 'Most Toxic Air In The UK', Study Finds

The rest of London isn't much better.

londonist.com

 

[teuchter]

Council review reveals LTN scheme makes air pollution worse — The Consultation Institute

The level of a toxic car exhaust pollutant dropped across parts of south London following the scrapping of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN), according to a

www.consultationinstitute.org

Article originally appeared on the Daily mail online.


The Institute cannot confirm the accuracy of this story or confirm that it presents a balanced view. If you feel this is inaccurate we would welcome your perspective and evidence that this is the case

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

you read all the way to the end whereas I stopped at paragraph 2:

Levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) were higher at 11 south London streets when residential roads were closed and dropped when seven Wandsworth Council schemes were halted, The Telegraph reports.

nothing like quality sources as evidence always helps.

 

[BigTom]

Council review reveals LTN scheme makes air pollution worse — The Consultation Institute

The level of a toxic car exhaust pollutant dropped across parts of south London following the scrapping of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN), according to a

www.consultationinstitute.org

A Department of Transport spokesman said: ‘As the report itself makes clear, it is impossible to draw any firm conclusions from this limited data, and therefore it is misleading to imply that the Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in Wandsworth led to a worsening in air quality in the area.

It would be good to see the actual report rather than relying on the telegraph or daily mail for accurate reporting.

The Waltham Forrest LTNs helped to make Newham the 2nd worst borough in London for air quality

Newham Has 'Most Toxic Air In The UK', Study Finds

The rest of London isn't much better.

londonist.com

In Newham's case, it can't help that the borough is home to London City Airport.

I mean come on, why be so blatantly dishonest about this?

Meanwhile, since 2018 when that article is from, Newham have been installing LTNs, and (some of?) these have been made permanent: Two Newham Low Traffic Neighbourhoods recommended to be made permanent after successful trial – Newham Council

The Maryland and Odessa Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs), are recommended to be made permanent following a successful trial that has seen a significant decrease in traffic volumes, a significant increase in cycling trips, and improvements in air quality.

(nb: as the link says, this recommendation was approved)

So as far as they are concerned, LTNs improved air quality. It looks like they only measured on one boundary road but that saw a 7% fall in NO2 (and is located between the two LTNs, so it's where you'd expect to see the biggest increase, if there was to be one.

Meanwhile we have a peer reviewed study from Imperial College, published Nov 2022:

Evaluation of low traffic neighbourhood (LTN) impacts on NO2 and traffic

Traffic restriction measures may create safer and healthier places for community members but may also displace traffic and air pollution to surroundin…

www.sciencedirect.com

Low-traffic neighbourhoods reduce pollution in surrounding streets | Imperial News | Imperial College London

Low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) reduce traffic and air pollution without displacing the problem to nearby streets, new research has shown.

www.imperial.ac.uk

Based on the estimated post-treatment effects, we found that LTN implementation leads to a statistically significant reduction in average NO2 across boundary and internal sites by 8.9 % and 5.7 % in comparison of external control sites.
...

We evaluated impacts of three LTNs in the London Borough of Islington, UK, on air pollution and traffic flows in and around intervention areas, based on monthly Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) and traffic volume data provided by the local authority. We identified pre- and post-intervention monitoring periods and intervention, boundary and control sites. We then adapted the generalised difference in differences approach to evaluate the effects within LTNs and at their boundary. We found that LTNs have the potential to substantially reduce air pollution and traffic in target areas, without increasing air pollution or traffic volumes in surrounding streets.

...

We evaluated impacts of three LTNs in the London Borough of Islington, UK, on air pollution and traffic flows in and around intervention areas, based on monthly Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) and traffic volume data provided by the local authority. We identified pre- and post-intervention monitoring periods and intervention, boundary and control sites. We then adapted the generalised difference in differences approach to evaluate the effects within LTNs and at their boundary. We found that LTNs have the potential to substantially reduce air pollution and traffic in target areas, without increasing air pollution or traffic volumes in surrounding streets.

or you could look at this 2021 study by CERC in Lambeth:

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2021-09/CERC%20air%20quality%20Railton%20Oval%20Stockwell.pdf

Which showed NO2 reductions on what I assume internal roads and increases on boundary roads (I live in Birmingham, so I don't really know which these roads are). They say the overall effect of the LTN on NO2, and the two Particulate pollution measures is negligible.

Areas where Beneficial or Adverse impacts are predicted in Oval LTN include:
• Substantial Beneficial to Slight Beneficial impacts on Clapham Road, Fentiman Road, Albert Square, Crewdson Road, Fentiman Road, Hanover Gardens, Claylands Road and Dorset Road
• Substantial Adverse to Slight Adverse impacts on A203, Caldwell Street, Lansdowne Way, Sidney Road, St Stephens Terrace, St Michael’s Road and Clayton Street Areas where Beneficial or Adverse impacts are predicted in Railton LTN include:
• Substantial Beneficial to Slight Beneficial impacts on Coldharbour Lane (West), Effra Road, Railton, Shakespeare Road, Barnwell Road and Hurst Street
• Substantial Adverse to Slight Adverse impacts on Coldharbour Lane (East), Brixton Water Lane and Milkwood Road

but of course the imperial college one is newer and all the reporting on it is making it hard to find other studies.