No place for Israel in Middle East, says Iran’s Ahmadinejad

[dylans]

There is no place for Zionism in the Middle East.

I am puzzled why people regard this statement as so outrageous and as a call for genocide of Israeli Jews. If someone were to say there is no place for Apartheid in Africa would we accept the interpretation of that statement as advocating the genocide of white South Africans? If someone made the statement calling for the end of the Islamic state in Iran, would we interpret this as a call for the murder of Iranians?

No, of course not. Zionism is a political ideology. An ideology of religious nationalism. One that states that Israel is a state by and for Jews only. In a land where many people are not Jews this can only be a racist/apartheid and supremacist project, one that by definition means the exclusion and denial of rights of non Jews. Calling for the end of such a state is a democratic demand.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

There is no place for Zionism in the Middle East.

You can howl this at the moon for as long as you like but what do you propose to do about it? Given that it not only exists in the Middle East but is backed up by huge military force and substantial international support?

 

[Random]

Dylans you are such a walking pamphlet

 

[dylans]

You can howl this at the moon for as long as you like but what do you propose to do about it? Given that it not only exists in the Middle East but is backed up by huge military force and substantial international support?

This amounts to nothing more than might is right. You may well be correct that Israel is protected by the might and power of the USA but in the end I think the logic of Zionism itself will undermine Israel. The costs of maintaining the occupation, the costs of maintaining a permanent state of war with its neighbours, the costs of maintaining an enormous lie, will eventually corrode the moral fibre of the state itself.

We are already seeing signs of this with massive demonstrations by Israelis for social justice and the most right wing government the country has seen in decades. We will see more of it as the logic of maintaining Jewish privilege causes the state to implement more and more undemocratic laws. Legislation aimed at stemming the demographic shifts in Israeli society for example. Laws banning marriage between Jews and Arabs. Eventually Israel will become a fascist state. Eventually it will suffer a military defeat. Either way Zionism will unravel itself because it is based on a massive lie, the idea that all Jews, regardless of class or nationality or ethnicity have something in common. The lie that a democratic society and a society based on religious nationalism can coexist. These contradictions will eventually eat Israel from the inside. Its happening already

 

[dylans]

Dylans you are such a walking pamphlet

and you are a treacherous dog who stands by in silence as some of the most oppressed people on Earth struggle under military occupation and are brutalised and murdered by the IDF.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

and you are a treacherous dog who stands by in silence as some of the most oppressed people on Earth struggle under military occupation and are brutalised and murdered by the IDF.

running dog - a treacherous running dog at least get your insults right!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

This amounts to nothing more than might is right. You may well be correct that Israel is protected by the might and power of the USA but in the end I think the logic of Zionism itself will undermine Israel. The costs of maintaining the occupation, the costs of maintaining a permanent state of war with its neighbours, the costs of maintaining an enormous lie, will eventually corrode the moral fibre of the state itself.

Unlike you I'm not making a moral judgement or demand, I'm asking what you propose to do about the problem you've identified

We are already seeing signs of this with massive demonstrations by Israelis for social justice and the most right wing government the country has seen in decades. We will see more of it as the logic of maintaining Jewish privilege causes the state to implement more and more undemocratic laws. Legislation aimed at stemming the demographic shifts in Israeli society for example. Laws banning marriage between Jews and Arabs. Eventually Israel will become a fascist state. Eventually it will suffer a military defeat. Either way Zionism will unravel itself because it is based on a massive lie, the idea that all Jews, regardless of class or nationality or ethnicity have something in common. The lie that a democratic society and a society based on religious nationalism can coexist. These contradictions will eventually eat Israel from the inside. Its happening already

No concrete proposals for moving forward then, just a bit of speculative fiction about a possible future.

 

[dylans]

running dog - a treacherous running dog at least get your insults right!

I don't think its a joking matter that Palestinians are living under a 46 year illegal occupation or that there are now half a million settler on their land or that 7000 Palestinians have been murdered by Israel since 2000 including 2000 children or that thousands are illegally detained or that Or that an entire people are facing ethnic cleansing, land theft and cultural genocide while useful idiots like yourself give them moral cover. But hey, that's just me

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I don't think its a joking matter that Palestinians are living under a 46 year illegal occupation or that there are now half a million settler on their land or that 7000 Palestinians have been murdered by Israel since 2000 including 2000 children or that thousands are illegally detained or that Or that an entire people are facing ethnic cleansing, land theft and cultural genocide while useful idiots like yourself give them moral cover. But hey, that's just me

And what do you propose we do about that?

Hang on - are you saying that if I stop providing this ephemeral moral cover you allude to without describing then they will stop?

 

[Random]

and you are a treacherous dog who stands by in silence as some of the most oppressed people on Earth struggle under military occupation and are brutalised and murdered by the IDF.

Not exactly proving me wrong with that response

 

[dylans]

Unlike you I'm not making a moral judgement or demand, I'm asking what you propose to do about the problem you've identified



No concrete proposals for moving forward then, just a bit of speculative fiction about a possible future.

I admit its a cause with little hope. There are already half a million settlers on Palestinian land and with the support of the US Israel knows it can act with impunity. What can be done to support a powerless people facing ethnic cleansing by one of the strongest military machines in the world? Perhaps the cause is lost, perhaps Palestinians are destined to go the way of native American Indians. I don't know.

But that is no reason to pretend that what Israel is doing is anything but a crime.

 

[dylans]

Not exactly proving me wrong with that response

Who cares what you think? You have already said you refuse to support national liberation movements. Which means you stand in silence with your arms folded as Israel commits its crimes against the Palestinians. You have made it clear that your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

But that is no reason to pretend that what Israel is doing is anything but a crime.

I've not seen anyone here defending the actions of the Israeli government?? Even that old trecherous running dog Random...

On the other hand I've seen what could be interpreted to be apologetics for the murdering anti-semite Amoud Dinnerjacket or whatever his name is.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Who cares what you think? You have already said you refuse to support national liberation movements.

You've written off quite a large chunk of the worlds working class there...

 

[Random]

Who cares what you think? You have already said you refuse to support national liberation movements. Which means you stand in silence with your arms folded as Israel commits its crimes against the Palestinians. You have made it clear that your opinion is irrelevant.

You clearly care. I'm flecked with cyber-spittle

 

[dylans]

I've not seen anyone here defending the actions of the Israeli government?? Even that old trecherous running dog Random...

On the other hand I've seen what could be interpreted to be apologetics for the murdering anti-semite Amoud Dinnerjacket or whatever his name is.

Yes I am apologising for Ahmadinejad without mentioning his name once in a single post. That's quite an achievement.

 

[Random]

Joking aside, I'll state for the record that I support the struggle against the Israeli state and it's racism. This doesn't mean I support other racist states, like the Iranian one, or the proto-state Palestinian nationalist movements. Hopefully in a few years we'll see the Israeli state crippled due to the downfall of US power. Hopefully this will not mean Palestinian police shooting down strikers, like in post-apartheid South Africa.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yes I am apologising for Ahmadinejad without mentioning his name once in a single post. That's quite an achievement.

did I say you were?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Hopefully this will not mean Palestinian police shooting down strikers, like in post-apartheid South Africa.

The Palestinian authorities already carry out atrocities so I won't be holding my breath.

 

[dylans]

Joking aside, I'll state for the record that I support the struggle against the Israeli state and it's racism. This doesn't mean I support other racist states, like the Iranian one, or the proto-state Palestinian nationalist movements. Hopefully in a few years we'll see the Israeli state crippled due to the downfall of US power. Hopefully this will not mean Palestinian police shooting down strikers, like in post-apartheid South Africa.

Yes I have seen your support for the palestinian struggle in your posts attacking BDS. With friends like you etc etc

 

[dylans]

did I say you were?

Yes here

On the other hand I've seen what could be interpreted to be apologetics for the murdering anti-semite Amoud Dinnerjacket or whatever his name is

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yes I have seen your support for the palestinian struggle in your posts attacking BDS. With friends like you etc etc

"either support my tactics or support the enemy"

How very Leninist of you.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yes here

Why do you think that was referring to you? Do you have a guilty consience?

 

[dylans]

"either support my tactics or support the enemy"

How very Leninist of you.

Not my tactics. The call by Palestinians for international solidarity.

 

[dylans]

Why do you think that was referring to you? Do you have a guilty consience?

If you weren't referring to me then fair enough. Perhaps you should make your posts a bit clearer

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

If you weren't referring to me then fair enough. Perhaps you should make your posts a bit clearer

Maybe you should stop thinking everything is always about you.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Not my tactics. The call by Palestinians for international solidarity.

Which Palestinians?

 

[dylans]

Maybe you should stop thinking everything is always about you.

This is becoming tedious. I'm off to do something productive. If you want to discuss the substance of my posts give me a shout

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

This is becoming tedious. I'm off to do something productive. If you want to discuss the substance of my posts give me a shout

If you would like to provide some posts of substance please give me a shout.

 

[dylans]

Which Palestinians?

Council of National and Islamic Forces in Palestine (Coordinating body for the major political parties in the Occupied Palestinian Territory)
• Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizen’s Rights (PICCR)
• Union of Arab Community Based Associations (ITTIJAH), Haifa
• Forum of Palestinian NGOs in Lebanon
• Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions (PGFTU)
• General Union of Palestinian Women (GUPW)
• General Union of Palestinian Teachers (GUPT)
• Federation of Unions of Palestinian Universities’ Professors and Employees
• Consortium of Professional Associations
• Union of Palestinian Medical Relief Committees (UPMRC)
• Health Work Committees – West Bank
• Union of Agricultural Work Committees (UAWC)
• Union of Palestinian Agricultural Relief Committees (PARC)
• Union of Health Work Committees – Gaza (UHWC)
• Union of Palestinian Farmers
• Occupied Palestine and Syrian Golan Heights Advocacy Initiative (OPGAI)
• General Union of Disabled Palestinians
• Palestinian Federation of Women’s Action Committees (PFWAC)
• Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI)
• Palestinian Grassroots Anti-Apartheid Wall Campaign
• Union of Teachers of Private Schools
• Union of Women’s Work Committees, Tulkarem (UWWC)
• Dentists’ Association – Jerusalem Center
• Palestinian Engineers Association
• Lawyers’ Association
• Network for the Eradication of Illiteracy and Adult Education, Ramallah
• Coordinating Committee of Rehabilitation Centers – West Bank
• Coalition of Lebanese Civil Society Organizations (150 organizations)
• Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR), Network of Student-based Canadian University Associations