SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Unless they live in a place that's now been flooded with tourists.
Ministers target July 4th for reopening of England’s pubs and restaurants
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Unless they live in a place that's now been flooded with tourists.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I think they've been getting cold feet about some of their relaxations for some time. Diminishing cases here, elsewhere in Europe and in places like New York made it possible to sustain a certain degree of optimism for a time, buoyed further when the whole of summer lay ahead of us. But then the USA and then certain parts of europe and some of the UKs own data started to renew the various causes for concern, and autumn/winter started to seem much closer.
I didnt have a problem with Whitty when he described how countries were learning what relaxations they could get away with, and doing this over a summer was a better idea than waiting till winter when the virus is likely to have several transmission advantages. I didnt know how much we could get away with and a bunch of the stuff they've tried would not have raised objections from me. Exceptions to this for me are the shitty ways they've tried to force people back to work, ongoing failings in other parts of the system, and I was never comfortable about the pubs reopening. Which doesnt necessarily mean I wouldnt have done it, as opportunities to give people something like that for a time in the summer seems kind of important if you are going to ask people to give up various things again later on.
I didnt have a problem with Whitty when he described how countries were learning what relaxations they could get away with, and doing this over a summer was a better idea than waiting till winter when the virus is likely to have several transmission advantages. I didnt know how much we could get away with and a bunch of the stuff they've tried would not have raised objections from me. Exceptions to this for me are the shitty ways they've tried to force people back to work, ongoing failings in other parts of the system, and I was never comfortable about the pubs reopening. Which doesnt necessarily mean I wouldnt have done it, as opportunities to give people something like that for a time in the summer seems kind of important if you are going to ask people to give up various things again later on.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
That's been known to be coming for a while. My brother has been shielding (kidney transplant) and he went back to office work two weeks ago despite the fact he didn't really need or have to!
Last edited:
elbows
Well-Known Member
I have a vague sense that they've only gone ahead with pausing this now because they think they will have to reactivate it later and if they dont pause it now the opportunity to pause it at any stage in 2020 might pass by. I have not yet tried to form a sense of how risky I think this is, the timing doesnt seem ideal, maybe they should have hit pause on this a bit earlier and then have been ready to end the pause earlier than they now will.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Very hard to see how (short of a vaccine by then) that this winter isn't going to be a series of local and possible national lockdowns as infections go up all over.
World beating
Numbers
an ting!
Exemplar.
William of Walworth said:
OK, fair dos, there was also something recently on BBC 24 News on TV not long ago.
Alyson Pollard (?) from University of Newcastle (I think) was reacting, and saying that it shouldn't be a matter of closure competetions between pubs and schools, the focus should much more be on sorting out (and localising) testing and tracing. She made sense ....
But all this is just a talking point so far .....
elbows
Well-Known Member
Theres a neat and convenient version of reality where lockdown and other draconian stuff is an emergency handbrake of last resort, and where other stuff, if done well enough, can avoid the need for such draconian measures. I have, on occasion, contributed to this perception. But I believe the limits to how far this idea can be stretched are never far away, and this matters a lot.
The obvious example is that there are limits to every countries contact tracing capacity - even countries with world-class systems cannot operate them effectively beyond certain sizes of outbreaks. So the system itself needs to be able to get results that keep its work down to a certain size, and if things slip beyond that point then something else will have to be done. And the contact tracing itself will yield valuable data about how the infection is spreading, and sometimes that data will tell you that something is such a concern that broader draconian measures are needed to bring that aspect under control. So in this latter scenario, the contact tracing doesnt end up being a simple alternative to other measures, its the thing that ends up telling us that the other measures, to eliminate that particular vector of transmission, are required.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
And as I've said before, a large factor that seems to be the problem currently with T&T is the human one. The system not being run properly by pubs etc., and then people not answering their phones, and sometimes when they do refusing to agree to self isolate. Complex reasons why we're in that situation, but it's hard to know how to fix.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
We’re supposed to track and trace any member of the public who comes onto our premises, even if they don’t come in to the building. But have to say it’s difficult to ask people for their details when you’ve just disappointed them by telling them they can’t come in because Covid has limited the services we offer.
Locally run contact tracing might help.
Nah, Serco have got this
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I have no idea if it would, and have no knowledge if there's any planning for that. When you say 'locally run' though what do you mean btw? Councils? Local NHS Trusts, something else?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Think there needs to be a text system as well, alerting people they're going to get a call from T&T and to answer it. I don't know if that's happening, but given how much medical work is now remote and working with systems like that it must be possible without a huge problem.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
TBH my local council is so completely inefficient and incompetent I'm not sure I'd trust them to do anything. Their IT systems are like something from the late '90s too, they be sending messages out with dial up carrier pigeon.
Thora
Differently Ethical
People need to be paid to isolate or it just isn't affordable for many.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Problem with track and testing, as with other measures, you’re expecting the people who carry it out to do something very different from their normal job with little or no training, so there are bound to be problems getting it to work
There is that.
Here’s a report quoting Blackburn’s public health director. I seem to remember him complaining on Twitter a while ago about a refusal to pass contact tracing information on to him for people who the national service had failed to reach. I‘m not sure whether this has been resolved.
Coronavirus: 'Almost half' of Blackburn Covid-19 contacts not reached
New cases are rising around the Lancashire town, sparking warnings about the NHS test and trace system.
www.bbc.co.uk
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You mean the people doing the calling? They get training, and it's really not a complicated job mostly. A lot is computer algorithm/flowchart based. And the people I know doing it are all NHS staff, mostly nurses.
elbows
Well-Known Member
This recent stuff about Sandwell is probably a good way of examining local contract tracing. And yes they do get data now, although whether it is always detailed and timely enough is another matter.
#15,539
I know my county, Warwickshire, is one of those that have long been signed up as some sort of 'beacon' initiative to do with various aspects of the localised approach. There are plenty of others who are part of the same scheme. Most of the paperwork I've seen relating to this is pretty dull but if I find anything that adds to this angle I'll post it anyway.
#15,539
I know my county, Warwickshire, is one of those that have long been signed up as some sort of 'beacon' initiative to do with various aspects of the localised approach. There are plenty of others who are part of the same scheme. Most of the paperwork I've seen relating to this is pretty dull but if I find anything that adds to this angle I'll post it anyway.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
No, I was talking about people like me, expected to do a completely different job to what we’re trained for, just so we can keep open, and one of those is tracking all of our customers who make contact by coming into our hubs and offices.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Ah, I see what you meant. Are they supposed to fill a form in when they arrive then? Is it a condition of use?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
We’re supposed to ask them and write it down as we can’t take anything off the customer. So even if they don’t come in and we can’t help them, we still have to gather details, but you try getting a name, phone number, house number and postcode off an angry and confused homeless drug addict who’s having a nervous breakdown.
Another report about Sandwell:
Coronavirus: Sandwell Council sets up own contact tracing system amid anger with government's version
"We're not waiting for Test and Trace to fail," the local director of public health tells Sky News.
news.sky.com
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'm vaguely impressed that there havent been more stories like this one yet, although one is still too many for my liking.
Coronavirus: Pub cluster cases rise to 32 after FM warning
Nicola Sturgeon says that if you are traced and linked to any cluster it is "non-negotiable" that you self-isolate for 14 days
www.bbc.co.uk
Plumdaff
joy in people
According to the Health Minister, the Welsh test and trace system is reaching 90% of contacts. I'd like to see that claim held up to some decent scrutiny, and if it stands up, might be something to learn from? I do know it's wholly in the public sector, being led by Health Boards and councils, which possibly is making a difference?
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
I'm in a cafe in a garden centre. Staff all masked, socially distanced tables...and a whole host of silly old bastards wandering through the indoor bit with no masks and not social distancing. Selfish cunts.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
