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Junior doctors strike back on

brogdale said:
It's just bollux, either way. A contract only exists if the two parties agree it.
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What you say has resonance, but I fear the ship called "things that make sense" has already sailed to a distant land.

I have a thing I am being pressured to sign at work which allows various companies and governmental entities in other countries to access information about me. It is considered 'voluntary' at least in terms of how it is worded, and I have missed the 'deadline' for signing. Pressure is being applied gently at this point, but it is going to ramp up during the coming week. Where I work, people sign all manner of things that they do not understand (this thing does not seem particularly harmful, but if they are going to call it 'voluntary', then I am going to make them work to get my signature).

It's just how things work in our post-democratic utopia.
 
8ball said:
What you say has resonance, but I fear the ship called "things that make sense" has already sailed to a distant land.

I have a thing I am being pressured to sign at work which allows various companies and governmental entities in other countries to access information about me. It is considered 'voluntary' at least in terms of how it is worded, and I have missed the 'deadline' for signing. Pressure is being applied gently at this point, but it is going to ramp up during the coming week. Where I work, people sign all manner of things that they do not understand (this thing does not seem particularly harmful, but if they are going to call it 'voluntary', then I am going to make them work to get my signature).

It's just how things work in our post-democratic utopia.
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Yes, resist if you can.
I myself managed not to cooperate with all manner of guff, including finger-print entry pass.
 
brogdale said:
Yes, resist if you can.
I myself managed not to cooperate with all manner of guff, including finger-print entry pass.
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Well done on the biometrics - that would be an uphill struggle at my place. I've been strongarmed into signing things that don't even make grammatical, never mind logical sense. Unfortunately I need the job.
 
Lord Camomile said:
I'm pretty sure I still haven't signed the contract for my current job, which I got four years ago... :hmm:
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I was never even presented with a contract for my current job. I have a copy of a contract for a job I started 16 years ago and moved on from more than a decade ago.
I'm never sure how it works with job contracts.
 
brogdale said:
It's just bollux, either way. A contract only exists if the two parties agree it.
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That's true, but Junior Doctors do not have permanent contracts because they are still in training, and will move to another post at some time in the near future, as part of that training.

When they do, they will be told that the job offer is on the basis of the new contract.

Of course they can refuse but, if they do, they have no job, and there has not been a dismissal or even a resignation, so no employment rights.

Lots of doctors have said that they will walk rather than sign the new contract but, in the event, making yourself unemployed and with no benefits because you've walked away might not be too attractive.

Bastard Tories.

That's why it's so important that we keep supporting them and that they win this fight.
 
8115 said:
I think the BMA may have to accept the contract, not just individual doctors.
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Unfortunately, that's not true, either.

That's what is meant when people refer to the contract being "imposed". The government has failed to reach an agreement with the BMA so they have decided that they will change the contract anyway. It's been published and will come in from August for all junior doctors who start a new job after that.
 
Guineveretoo said:
Unfortunately, that's not true, either.

That's what is meant when people refer to the contract being "imposed". The government has failed to reach an agreement with the BMA so they have decided that they will change the contract anyway. It's been published and will come in from August for all junior doctors who start a new job after that.
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That's what they call the "nucleur" option? I thought that Hunt had not yet decided to go for imposition?

Eta ignore me, I've just got the distinction between imposing and introducing.
 
8115 said:
That's what they call the "nucleur" option? I thought that Hunt had not yet decided to go for imposition?

Eta ignore me, I've just got the distinction between imposing and introducing.
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Hunt is saying that he is not "imposing" because they are not changing existing contracts, simply introducing new ones.

So, technically, he is right.

However, every junior doctor will be on a new contract within the next 12 months. And it will not be one that has been negotiated.

Bastard Tories.
 
I'm wondering why the headline writers refer to "UK junior doctors" when really it's a matter of Junior doctors in England.

I suppose a headline saying "Junior doctors in England, unlike those in other parts of the U.K., are forced to resort to strike action because their Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, is a right bastard who wants to impose an unfair and horrible contract" might be a bit unwieldy, but it might help indicate that the world CAN go on without that damned contract, and that the blame lies with Jeremy Hunt.
 
It feels like support for the junior doctors is shrivelling away, particularly now that it impacts directly on the senior doctors who are going to have to staff A&E and deal with emergencies! :eek:

There is the question as to whether the consultants who will be working in A&E will be good enough when, presumably, some of them have not worked there for decades.

I reckon the press will be hunting around for someone to blame the death of their loved one on the strike, so that they can plaster it all over the place. Firstly, we have to hope that no-one dies as a result of the strike and, secondly, we have to hope that the press don't pick up on someone who was going to die anyway, and blame that on the strike :( :(
 
Guineveretoo said:
It feels like support for the junior doctors is shrivelling away, particularly now that it impacts directly on the senior doctors who are going to have to staff A&E and deal with emergencies! :eek:

There is the question as to whether the consultants who will be working in A&E will be good enough when, presumably, some of them have not worked there for decades.

I reckon the press will be hunting around for someone to blame the death of their loved one on the strike, so that they can plaster it all over the place. Firstly, we have to hope that no-one dies as a result of the strike and, secondly, we have to hope that the press don't pick up on someone who was going to die anyway, and blame that on the strike :( :(
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I think the people working will be A and E consultants. I think each area, ie oncology, orthopaedics, a and e, obstetrics, has junior doctors and consultants.

Just a factual matter.
 
More to the point, who's support do they need? What bad things will happen if they lose public support? They're involved in an industrial dispute, not a popularity contest.
 
8115 said:
I think the people working will be A and E consultants. I think each area, ie oncology, orthopaedics, a and e, obstetrics, has junior doctors and consultants.

Just a factual matter.
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Yes, but there are not enough consultants in A&E to cover 48 hours, and this covers several shifts, so consultants from other areas will need to be roped in.
 
killer b said:
More to the point, who's support do they need? What bad things will happen if they lose public support? They're involved in an industrial dispute, not a popularity contest.
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They need the support of their members, of other unions, of the public and of the press, otherwise, there is no pressure on the Government to do anything to end this dispute, and it will just be left to wither on the vine.
 
But either way, they do enjoy wide support, from the public and from other unions. Fuck the press, they can all die in a ditch.
 
8115 said:
I'm not sure this is correct.
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Really? It is my understanding that there is usually one consultant in overall charge of A&E and then lots of "junior doctors" (including senior registrars) who are in charge of different aspects of it, and then lots more "junior doctors" who work to them.

You think there is usually more than one consultant working in A&E at any one time?
 
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