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How much do you think doctors should get paid?

Should junior doctors strike for 33% pay increase?

  • Total voters
    102
Am now feeling slightly bad about not taking IA next week :oops: Altho not that bad- at the end of the day if what you’re doing is helping patients.

My view is the BMA have gone too hard with this strike.
 
I totally support both doctors and nurses in their strikes. The choice is theirs alone and all power to them however they do it.

The failure to adequately reward them for their considerable efforts especially in the last few years lies with government imho. Any consequences rest on the gov too
 
Edie said:
Oh fair enough. Not sure what the two components added together are. Seems like a reasonable wage for someone literally running the country mind you.
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Idk who the guy even is but the facts appear to be there. I don't really care what his wage is tho, I just want better wages for people who are not on over 100k regardless of industry. Also if my daughters BF could get a job that would be nice.
 
newme said:
Idk who the guy even is but the facts appear to be there. I don't really care what his wage is tho, I just want better wages for people who are not on over 100k regardless of industry. Also if my daughters BF could get a job that would be nice.
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Secretary of State for health and social care.
 
Edie said:
Secretary of State for health and social care.
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Does sound like a reasonable amount of cash for that tbh. On the assumption they are qualified to do it, seems a lot of political appointments are without this however.
 
Just asked one of my consultant colleagues how it went during IA for them and got two fingers and a mouthed F off 🥲 so well, I think ;)

I’m sure it’ll be the keyboards that periodically (ie every time you actually want to use them) instruct you to disinfect that will have done it.

Or the insane number of click-throughs you have to do to prescribe paracetamol qds ❤️

Or the joy of managing a NEWS>10 patient whilst the discharge coordinator threatens to DATIX you unless you prioritise the tenth TTO that shift cos the hospital is on silver alert 💐

Seeing an old-school consultant carrying three bleeps (ward-cover, crash, and fuck-knows-what 🤣) at the start of my scab night on call was my fave moment of this IA.

Up the medics 💪

Edit: the keyboard!!!!
9B4D8935-0E8A-4A59-97FE-557212EAA3C7.jpeg
 
Edie said:
Just asked one of my consultant colleagues how it went during IA for them and got two fingers and a mouthed F off 🥲 so well, I think ;)

I’m sure it’ll be the keyboards that periodically (ie every time you actually want to use them) instruct you to disinfect that will have done it.

Or the insane number of click-throughs you have to do to prescribe paracetamol qds ❤️

Or the joy of managing a NEWS>10 patient whilst the discharge coordinator threatens to DATIX you unless you prioritise the tenth TTO that shift cos the hospital is on silver alert 💐

Seeing an old-school consultant carrying three bleeps (ward-cover, crash, and fuck-knows-what 🤣) at the start of my scab night on call was my fave moment of this IA.

Up the medics 💪

Edit: the keyboard!!!!
View attachment 370801
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You deserve a big payrise just for knowing what all that gibberish actually means.
 
newme said:
Does sound like a reasonable amount of cash for that tbh. On the assumption they are qualified to do it, seems a lot of political appointments are without this however.
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Sadly he is not qualified, failed on the 'knowing his arse from his elbow' element of the test, but got the job anyway.
 
Edie said:
Current IA obviously for us juniors. I’ve stepped out and am scabbing inc picking up locums. Will probably but not definitely give the locum money to the strike fund, but I may give it to the food bank instead 👀

Do you think this IA is justified?
Would you feel obliged to support it even if you didn’t cos ‘unions’?
Do you even think doctors should be paid the same as nurses, who in turn should be paid the same as HCAs (extreme Marxist option :D ).

For information:
Starting Foundation doctor salary: 29,000 (£14.10/hr).
Ten years into training, Senior Reg (my level): 51,000 (£28/hr).
Note: if you work a more demanding rota, like a 1 in 2, this will be higher (I work a 1 in 4). Plus you can boost your income with locums- I do, a massive amount, but I work all the hours God sends.

Consultants start at 88,000 rising to 119,000 after 20 years service as a Consultant. It takes 10-15 years post Med school to become a Consultant.

Controversially, I sometimes think this is enough… The “militant” BMA point to the brain drain to Aus and make comparisons to other professions.

So- do you think Junior Docs are right to strike and risk patients for (what they call full pay restoration) a 33% increase?

PS am only giving you two poll options, cos that’s all the options I have about whether to walk out next week ;)
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It's not about 'how much', it's about the logic of collective action. Being in a group with a common interest and struggling against their opponents (enemy in terms of the government). Strikes and other forms of industrial action are not about picking and choosing, they are about having a vote and abiding by it. Anything else weakens that action and your fellow workers. It's not about nuance in terms of those basics and whilst some disputes put strikers in danger of not paying their bills I'm guessing that isn't the case here.

Your attitude to strikes, other forms of action and the rest is something to debate within the union, a reason to get involved. And pay differentials, inequality between groups of workers, well that's a reason to get involved in the politics of your choice.

That's a pretty unrelenting reply and very few strikes get anything like 100% support (not least because of management bullying - another reason to show strength and support the action). But ultimately it's the only possible logic for industrial action.
 
Cid said:
Sadly he is not qualified, failed on the 'knowing his arse from his elbow' element of the test, but got the job anyway.
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Yeh that's why I phrased it like that. The distribution of jobs seems random. It's not based on who is actually good at that area, unlike how pretty much every single other job works. Makes no sense.

Of course them being entirely useless in general is another issue but a fairly common one it appears.
 
SpookyFrank said:
I also think consultants could stand to take a haircut to help uplift salaries elsewhere in the NHS. The senior ones also seem to do absolutely fuck all most of the time.
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The consultants who do lucrative medical expert reports, assisting law firms in personal injury and medical negligence cases, etc., need looking at.

When I worked as a medico-legal secretary donkeys years ago, iirc, some consultants would see patients in private consulting rooms, some would see legal clients in NHS hospitals.

It struck me that some consultants seemed to be behaving a bit like MPs, having a full-time job but then using their position to get lucrative side gigs.
 
I think junior doctors should start on about 50k, bearing in mind they're doing (at least) 48 hours a week, so that would be the equivalent of paying another public sector worker £35k for a 35 hour week,

And I don't think that's unreasonable, also bearing in mind the fact that most of them have been studying for 5-6 years and are at least £100k in debt, debts that have to be serviced.

Plus all the registration fees they have to pay, insurance, course and exam fees.

If the government wants to penny pinch on their salaries, then those fees for professional registrations and qualifications ought to be paid by the NHS as their employer.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
The consultants who do lucrative medical expert reports, assisting law firms in personal injury and medical negligence cases, etc., need looking at.

When I worked as a medico-legal secretary donkeys years ago, iirc, some consultants would see patients in private consulting rooms, some would see legal clients in NHS hospitals.

It struck me that some consultants seemed to be behaving a bit like MPs, having a full-time job but then using their position to get lucrative side gigs.
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A lot (most?) Consultants have private practice. Both on NHS estate (which I guess they rent?) and in private rooms.

When I was an F2 in Harrogate on Urology part of our ward round was seeing the private TURP patients on the private ward. It was generally less safe (fewer nurses) but had cut flowers and a nicer menu 😂

Thinking back I guess is juniors shouldn’t have really been doing jobs for them, but that’s how it was. Maybe the Consultants also rented our time from the DGH?? I mean fuck knows.

Saved a man’s life there. He was presenting as ++anxious but with normal obs. A sixth sense told me his ‘panic attack’ was actually acute illness, did a lactate and he was in ICU a few hours later. I held his hand when they were putting the central line in, he was very very poorly and knew it.

Lovely chap, wonderful family- farmer from the Dales. Went to his funeral in the end. Metastatic- couldn’t be helped. At least I gave him the chance to say goodbye properly. Still cycle past his farm and get a lump in my throat.
 
Edie said:
Am now feeling slightly bad about not taking IA next week :oops: Altho not that bad- at the end of the day if what you’re doing is helping patients.

My view is the BMA have gone too hard with this strike.
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Youre not helping patients in the medium long term youre fucking them over. By siding with guilt tripping middle and upper nhs management who implement whatever shit they get told to. And thereby siding with the government in privatising the NHS.

Look how much worse things are in the NHS than 2008. If there had been and if there were to be more active resistence from workers then it could be less.

It's fine if you want to scab and say it's all about individual circumstances and you need the money. But patient safety? bullshit. It's enabling the eroding of patient safety. Thats precisely one of the main factors in junior doctors striking isnt it.... they are badly paid for a v high responsibility job under a lot of pressure.
 
Riklet said:
Youre not helping patients in the medium long term youre fucking them over. By siding with guilt tripping middle and upper nhs management who implement whatever shit they get told to. And thereby siding with the government in privatising the NHS.

Look how much worse things are in the NHS than 2008. If there had been and if there were to be more active resistence from workers then it could be less.

It's fine if you want to scab and say it's all about individual circumstances and you need the money. But patient safety? bullshit. It's enabling the eroding of patient safety. Thats precisely one of the main factors in junior doctors striking isnt it.... they are badly paid for a v high responsibility job under a lot of pressure.
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Striking is about our wages. It’s not about ‘saving the NHS’ or patient safety. We’ve been very clear about that this time round.
 
Edie said:
Striking is about our wages. It’s not about ‘saving the NHS’ or patient safety. We’ve been very clear about that this time round.
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Maybe, but does a government win on pay help or hinder their push on privatisation?
 
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