Is Desmond Tutu a rabid hater of Jews?
- Thread starter Grandma Death
- Start date
This time we know for sure that the means to end human life are available. Not only that, but we are able to clearly observe the process, in the form of nuclear proliferation and environmental destruction. Of course there is a natural tendency to denial, but that is becoming ever more implausible.
Spion
I hear ya
If people believed biblical prophesy they'd act more rationally? LOL
That's it folks - our leaders are not religious enough and that's why the world's in such a state!!!
Quite. Mad.
Yes they do. And here we are reminded of the words of Milton: "Among them He a spirit of frenzy sent/ Who hurt their minds/ And urg'd them on with mad desire/ To call in haste for their destroyer..."
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
If people believed biblical prophesy they'd act more rationally? LOL
That's it folks - our leaders are not religious enough and that's why the world's in such a shit state!!!
Quite. Mad.
That's it, we need more religion not less of it.
Aye. We had a pretty good innings.
That's it, we need more religion not less of it.
Now look what you've done.
Spion: "Israel exists in the minds of Jews.": Yes, almost all, even the ones opposing it upon religious grounds still pray towards Jerusalem and pray for its resurrection (it IS ressurected but they will only support it upon the Messianic Advent).
The reason though is more important: Israel stands on part of our ancient homeland (with Gaza and the so called "West Bank" - and a smidgen of Jordan containing the rest of our land).
"That Arabs are given full and equal rights.": If you mean "Palestinians," as in those Arabs of Gaza and the so called "West Bank," while they are not covered by Israel's Basic Law which guarantees ALL citizens including Israeli-Arabs full and equal rights...and as I have said many times here they even have more rights than Jewish Israelis....I will address it in the following paragraph.
"Palestinians" are offered their own form of protection under International Law. As you see by the fact that Israel has never even been charged in an International Court, these rights are vigorously honoured. In fact Spion, again they get EXTRA rights in that they are allowed to utilise the Israeli Court System in addition to both governmental and NGO omsbudsmen services. If they feel they have suffered any kind of abuse they are quite able to file a criminal or civil charge and have it addressed through the Israeli Court System.
As for "economic embargo," "Checkpoints," "strictures on movement," and so forth...I have addressed these issues many times and not suprisingly when confronted by facts, you do a hop, skip, and a jump by lobbing insults or offering new subject matter in hopes of wiggling out of being compelled to confront some very uncomfortable ideas.
Gaza is under an economic embargo but it is provided, BY ISRAEL, with all Humanitarian needs. Medicines, vital foodstuffs, 64% of the elctricty in Gaza, potable water, diesel, gasoline, propane, and kerosene gasses are all provided, BY ISRAEL, to the people of Gaza.
As far as "Movement," this is a 2 fold issue. Movement in terms of Gaza is far different than movement in and around the "West Bank." In Gaza, all Crossings are closed unless one has obtained a Humanitarian or PRess PAss. Although propaganda has tried to convince people that Humanitarian Passes have been denied to needy people, even though Gazans have tried to abuse those passes while committing or trying to commit terrorism (the last case being about 2 weeks ago when 2 middle aged mothers had obtained the PAsses in hopes of becoming "Suicide Bombers" and killing Israelis, much like the 19 year old woman I talked about weho made it as far as a Checkpoint on her way to Soroka Hospital, the one that had saved the girl's life, in hopes of killing those that had saved her because they are Jews.
The truth though, is that in the first 6 months of this year 2 times the number of Humanitarian Psses issued for ALL OF 2007 have been given out. A 100% increase when taking over the projected year of 2008.
As for movement in the "WB," Israel has Checkpoints and Roadblocks in place to stop terrorism and they have proven effective. Just 5 days ago one Checkpoint schedualed to be taken down caught 2 teens carrying pipebombs to be used in Israel. I have already mentioned the females caught in Gazan Border Crossing Checkpoints. Still, under pressure from the Quartet and its Mid-East Envoy former UK PM Blair, Israel has agreed to remove several and to remove almost 70 Roadblocks and to rearrange many more checkpoints so that travel is greatly eased, albeit channeled opposite the Israeli border so that it remains just as stringent near our border but much freer in the interior.
This does not include the fact that Israel has allowed PA Police to deploy in the shared Zone, which is not their right, and has been receptive to the new PA Army being trained by the Americans. 3 Battalions, 600 men each so far although the 3rd is still in training. The first 2 are deployed in Shechem, what you call Nablus, and in Jenin after first being ensconced in Ramallah as the formula was thoroughly worked out.In other words, in areas not under PA control, Israel is allowing them to take over vital security issues.
I SHOULD add though that there IS a prospective problem with that, one you have never addressed. Traditionally the PA operates far more Checkpoints than we, and does so much less efficiently and with almost no oversight whatsoever. So, as we ease movement, they will most likely make it much less freer than it was before! Ironic, although not ironic that you have chosen never to address it.
The reason though is more important: Israel stands on part of our ancient homeland (with Gaza and the so called "West Bank" - and a smidgen of Jordan containing the rest of our land).
"That Arabs are given full and equal rights.": If you mean "Palestinians," as in those Arabs of Gaza and the so called "West Bank," while they are not covered by Israel's Basic Law which guarantees ALL citizens including Israeli-Arabs full and equal rights...and as I have said many times here they even have more rights than Jewish Israelis....I will address it in the following paragraph.
"Palestinians" are offered their own form of protection under International Law. As you see by the fact that Israel has never even been charged in an International Court, these rights are vigorously honoured. In fact Spion, again they get EXTRA rights in that they are allowed to utilise the Israeli Court System in addition to both governmental and NGO omsbudsmen services. If they feel they have suffered any kind of abuse they are quite able to file a criminal or civil charge and have it addressed through the Israeli Court System.
As for "economic embargo," "Checkpoints," "strictures on movement," and so forth...I have addressed these issues many times and not suprisingly when confronted by facts, you do a hop, skip, and a jump by lobbing insults or offering new subject matter in hopes of wiggling out of being compelled to confront some very uncomfortable ideas.
Gaza is under an economic embargo but it is provided, BY ISRAEL, with all Humanitarian needs. Medicines, vital foodstuffs, 64% of the elctricty in Gaza, potable water, diesel, gasoline, propane, and kerosene gasses are all provided, BY ISRAEL, to the people of Gaza.
As far as "Movement," this is a 2 fold issue. Movement in terms of Gaza is far different than movement in and around the "West Bank." In Gaza, all Crossings are closed unless one has obtained a Humanitarian or PRess PAss. Although propaganda has tried to convince people that Humanitarian Passes have been denied to needy people, even though Gazans have tried to abuse those passes while committing or trying to commit terrorism (the last case being about 2 weeks ago when 2 middle aged mothers had obtained the PAsses in hopes of becoming "Suicide Bombers" and killing Israelis, much like the 19 year old woman I talked about weho made it as far as a Checkpoint on her way to Soroka Hospital, the one that had saved the girl's life, in hopes of killing those that had saved her because they are Jews.
The truth though, is that in the first 6 months of this year 2 times the number of Humanitarian Psses issued for ALL OF 2007 have been given out. A 100% increase when taking over the projected year of 2008.
As for movement in the "WB," Israel has Checkpoints and Roadblocks in place to stop terrorism and they have proven effective. Just 5 days ago one Checkpoint schedualed to be taken down caught 2 teens carrying pipebombs to be used in Israel. I have already mentioned the females caught in Gazan Border Crossing Checkpoints. Still, under pressure from the Quartet and its Mid-East Envoy former UK PM Blair, Israel has agreed to remove several and to remove almost 70 Roadblocks and to rearrange many more checkpoints so that travel is greatly eased, albeit channeled opposite the Israeli border so that it remains just as stringent near our border but much freer in the interior.
This does not include the fact that Israel has allowed PA Police to deploy in the shared Zone, which is not their right, and has been receptive to the new PA Army being trained by the Americans. 3 Battalions, 600 men each so far although the 3rd is still in training. The first 2 are deployed in Shechem, what you call Nablus, and in Jenin after first being ensconced in Ramallah as the formula was thoroughly worked out.In other words, in areas not under PA control, Israel is allowing them to take over vital security issues.
I SHOULD add though that there IS a prospective problem with that, one you have never addressed. Traditionally the PA operates far more Checkpoints than we, and does so much less efficiently and with almost no oversight whatsoever. So, as we ease movement, they will most likely make it much less freer than it was before! Ironic, although not ironic that you have chosen never to address it.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Spion: With regards to your points to Phil....A)"Grievances of 750,000 Refugees.": Time after time after time I have shown you why that number is nothing more than fantasy and have shown you not only third party sources , as in otherwise objective sources, but actual census and AID figures that show it is not real.
My question then, IF you are going to continue to ignore these very relevant facts, could you please break down the number as I have mine, and show us how you arrived at it? It is a very important issue, really the crux of the Peace Process and therefore its accuracy is crucial. Please show us HOW you have come to believe it is 750,000. Thank you in advance.
B)"Spion does not believe that resources should be allocated on grounds of ethnicity,ergo neither should nations exist on those grounds.": So you believe each and every Arab nation should be erased? You believe the UK should be erased? Unless you are one that believes in the chock full of wholes and irrationality ideology of Anarchism, or true Communism, you do not make any sense. Even the voiets believed in it so again, please explain.
C)"Israel has in effect annexed post Green Line lands.": It has? The only land it has annexed is East Jerusalem, and YES, that IS post Greenline but then the Arabs are no different in that Jerusalem was envisoned and proposed to be an International City under the UN flag. "Palestinians" are arguing that they should be given East Jerusalem and have it as the capitasl of THEIR nation. Ergo, Israel has just as much right under these conditions to do what it has done. It has even more of a right when one studies the history of the city and its related significance in terms of spirtuality.
I must add that this annexation includes a proposed 4 to 6% of the "WB" which has NOT been annexed but is being negotiated for as we speak, in trade for 4 to 6% of Israeli land to be given in exchange. The 4 to 6% contain Jewish holy sites as well as the Jewish suburbs of East Jerusalem.
Muslims have their 2 most holiest sites in Saudi Arabia, a land where no Jew may even cross the border. Our holiest site is in East Jerusalem. Our others are in that 4 to 6%. Seems utterly fair to me that Israel retain these lands especially in light of the fact that Israel has long ago given virtually total control of its own holiest site to Muslims, even if it retains the sovereignity.
No Jew can ascend the Temple Mount unless he has the permission of the PM. That is the Jews' holiest site. Yet out of respect to Islamic sensibilities which maintain that Muhammed flew on his winged horse to the Mount, AFTER HE DIED, and from the stone inside the Mosque of al Akhsa, the same stone they believe was used as a sacrifical altar for Ishmael (they changed it from Isaac), AND the first stone in Creation...even though in reality their beliefs merely state that Muhammed "flew to the Farthest Place."
So...As anyone can plainly see, it is better for everyone that the city remain unified and if not under International Control (and that will never happen given the ineptitude of the UN), that Israel retain sovereignity. It has the historical claim, it has the moral claim, it has the religious claim. Muslims not only have every right to worship there, but have (again) more rights than any other religion to pray there so again. it is not a bad deal.
"Abuses in the post Green Line lands.": What abuses? I have adressed this in my preceeding post. Please reply factually. Thank you in advance.
"Why is Jewish History unique.": For many, many reasons. First, we are the OLDEST CONTINUOUS civilisation on the planet. This is a fact. We are also the people who gave the world ethical monotheism, the basis for what passes today for almost the entire Western Standard of religion and morals, we are responsible for Christianity AND Islam, no other People has undergone as much persecution , nor has endured the loss of so many in so little time due to planned genocide, should I go on? I mean we could always talk about the alphabet (yeah, you probably think the word is Greek).
FruitLoop: The Roma have suffered , and some suffered in the Holocaust but their history dates to around the Middle Ages which is when they left or were forced out of India. Not only are they much, much younger as aPeople, they did not lose anything near the number we did in the Holocaust, nor in their other persecutions.
Editor: I find it quite interesting that when Phil politely posted to Grandma, and politely asked him or her to stop runing threads with insults, and Grandma , PERISH THE THOUGHT, replied with more insults, that you decided to criticise Phil and say nothing to Grandma. Far be it from me to try and tell you howe to perform your largely thankless and unpaid work but I see it as grossly unfair and systematic of the problem in this forum.
My question then, IF you are going to continue to ignore these very relevant facts, could you please break down the number as I have mine, and show us how you arrived at it? It is a very important issue, really the crux of the Peace Process and therefore its accuracy is crucial. Please show us HOW you have come to believe it is 750,000. Thank you in advance.
B)"Spion does not believe that resources should be allocated on grounds of ethnicity,ergo neither should nations exist on those grounds.": So you believe each and every Arab nation should be erased? You believe the UK should be erased? Unless you are one that believes in the chock full of wholes and irrationality ideology of Anarchism, or true Communism, you do not make any sense. Even the voiets believed in it so again, please explain.
C)"Israel has in effect annexed post Green Line lands.": It has? The only land it has annexed is East Jerusalem, and YES, that IS post Greenline but then the Arabs are no different in that Jerusalem was envisoned and proposed to be an International City under the UN flag. "Palestinians" are arguing that they should be given East Jerusalem and have it as the capitasl of THEIR nation. Ergo, Israel has just as much right under these conditions to do what it has done. It has even more of a right when one studies the history of the city and its related significance in terms of spirtuality.
I must add that this annexation includes a proposed 4 to 6% of the "WB" which has NOT been annexed but is being negotiated for as we speak, in trade for 4 to 6% of Israeli land to be given in exchange. The 4 to 6% contain Jewish holy sites as well as the Jewish suburbs of East Jerusalem.
Muslims have their 2 most holiest sites in Saudi Arabia, a land where no Jew may even cross the border. Our holiest site is in East Jerusalem. Our others are in that 4 to 6%. Seems utterly fair to me that Israel retain these lands especially in light of the fact that Israel has long ago given virtually total control of its own holiest site to Muslims, even if it retains the sovereignity.
No Jew can ascend the Temple Mount unless he has the permission of the PM. That is the Jews' holiest site. Yet out of respect to Islamic sensibilities which maintain that Muhammed flew on his winged horse to the Mount, AFTER HE DIED, and from the stone inside the Mosque of al Akhsa, the same stone they believe was used as a sacrifical altar for Ishmael (they changed it from Isaac), AND the first stone in Creation...even though in reality their beliefs merely state that Muhammed "flew to the Farthest Place."
So...As anyone can plainly see, it is better for everyone that the city remain unified and if not under International Control (and that will never happen given the ineptitude of the UN), that Israel retain sovereignity. It has the historical claim, it has the moral claim, it has the religious claim. Muslims not only have every right to worship there, but have (again) more rights than any other religion to pray there so again. it is not a bad deal.
"Abuses in the post Green Line lands.": What abuses? I have adressed this in my preceeding post. Please reply factually. Thank you in advance.
"Why is Jewish History unique.": For many, many reasons. First, we are the OLDEST CONTINUOUS civilisation on the planet. This is a fact. We are also the people who gave the world ethical monotheism, the basis for what passes today for almost the entire Western Standard of religion and morals, we are responsible for Christianity AND Islam, no other People has undergone as much persecution , nor has endured the loss of so many in so little time due to planned genocide, should I go on? I mean we could always talk about the alphabet (yeah, you probably think the word is Greek).
FruitLoop: The Roma have suffered , and some suffered in the Holocaust but their history dates to around the Middle Ages which is when they left or were forced out of India. Not only are they much, much younger as aPeople, they did not lose anything near the number we did in the Holocaust, nor in their other persecutions.
Editor: I find it quite interesting that when Phil politely posted to Grandma, and politely asked him or her to stop runing threads with insults, and Grandma , PERISH THE THOUGHT, replied with more insults, that you decided to criticise Phil and say nothing to Grandma. Far be it from me to try and tell you howe to perform your largely thankless and unpaid work but I see it as grossly unfair and systematic of the problem in this forum.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Grandma: Your BBC piece is dated April 24th, I believe, maybe the 28th. Things change day to day so if you are trying to make a point like the one you are attemtping to make, that Israel cut off this or that, it is best that you look for a current source.
Point in case is the fact that despite, as the BBC reported correctly, HAMAS members infiltrated the Nachal Oz Terminal and murdered two Israeli civlain lorry drivers who were delivering diesel intended for the Gazans, so would Israel NOT then close the Terminal at least to make a security upgrade? the closure lasted I believe 9 days but I would have to check my paperwork for the exact number of days.
It is a bit ironic that you apprently blame Israel for the closure when it was Gazans who came in and murdered two non-combatants in cold blood. Very interesting point of view.
Indeed, when that piece was written (as the UNRWA soundbite was universally covered) Israel had more than 3 million gallons of petrol sitting in Oz, waiting for pickup (the Closure was by that date over although as usual the BBC seems to have glossed over it) and the UN knew it. Israel has made them aware 2 days prior to that complaint. HAMAS refused to allow pickup, an act of which they have total control so that they could play the propaganda card...just as they do with the issue of electricity,etc.
In fact, if you care to do a bit of research you will find that up until the middle of May, at least 2 53 foot tasnkers were hijacked each day as they pulled onto the access road leading to the hiway out of Oz. Using GPS the tankers were always traced to HAMAS facilities where HAMAS then doled it out to ehir own people. This is why the HAMAS police force in Gaza turned into a taxi fleet. The population almost overthrew Haniyeh's regime over those sorts of tricks and HAMAS set out to refurbish its image with the taxi rides, etc.
You sarcastically offer what a good job Israel is doing and I offer this: What nation on Earth would subject itself to RPG, mortar, and Qassam shelling day in and day out to feed another population?
PIJ blows up 2 of the 7 conduits that bring in 66% of Gazan electricty, at Erez Crossing, and HAMAS blames Israel for blackouts in north Gaza that lasted 5 days as Israel furiously worked to repair the damage caused by Gazans themselves, and dodged shells all day as they did it.
The same with that fuel crisis. They cause it, then blame Israel. Interesting that you would fall for it though in light that you have been well ifnormed of the actual facts.
Point in case is the fact that despite, as the BBC reported correctly, HAMAS members infiltrated the Nachal Oz Terminal and murdered two Israeli civlain lorry drivers who were delivering diesel intended for the Gazans, so would Israel NOT then close the Terminal at least to make a security upgrade? the closure lasted I believe 9 days but I would have to check my paperwork for the exact number of days.
It is a bit ironic that you apprently blame Israel for the closure when it was Gazans who came in and murdered two non-combatants in cold blood. Very interesting point of view.
Indeed, when that piece was written (as the UNRWA soundbite was universally covered) Israel had more than 3 million gallons of petrol sitting in Oz, waiting for pickup (the Closure was by that date over although as usual the BBC seems to have glossed over it) and the UN knew it. Israel has made them aware 2 days prior to that complaint. HAMAS refused to allow pickup, an act of which they have total control so that they could play the propaganda card...just as they do with the issue of electricity,etc.
In fact, if you care to do a bit of research you will find that up until the middle of May, at least 2 53 foot tasnkers were hijacked each day as they pulled onto the access road leading to the hiway out of Oz. Using GPS the tankers were always traced to HAMAS facilities where HAMAS then doled it out to ehir own people. This is why the HAMAS police force in Gaza turned into a taxi fleet. The population almost overthrew Haniyeh's regime over those sorts of tricks and HAMAS set out to refurbish its image with the taxi rides, etc.
You sarcastically offer what a good job Israel is doing and I offer this: What nation on Earth would subject itself to RPG, mortar, and Qassam shelling day in and day out to feed another population?
PIJ blows up 2 of the 7 conduits that bring in 66% of Gazan electricty, at Erez Crossing, and HAMAS blames Israel for blackouts in north Gaza that lasted 5 days as Israel furiously worked to repair the damage caused by Gazans themselves, and dodged shells all day as they did it.
The same with that fuel crisis. They cause it, then blame Israel. Interesting that you would fall for it though in light that you have been well ifnormed of the actual facts.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Do you actually have conversations in your head with yourself and others-where perhaps you are imagining what people are saying
Care to point out where I said/insinuated that please?
Grandma: As for your first piece, if you pay attention to the information I post you will be well aware that that claim is totally false. The Gaza Power Staion provides 30% of Gaza's electricty and is not even neccessary for that porportion. Egypt orvides 6% and to my knowledge has nmever interrupted its flow, which services southern Gaza up past Rafah for about 14 klicks. We service Gaza via 7 conduits through Erez and those 7 provide 64% of all electricity in Gaza so for them to claim they have had electrical shortages is nonsense, with or without their Power Station.
The Janurary 2008 candle light vigil was a propaganda rise, as was the similar vigil (it is important to note that this last one had pactically no participation by Gazans, only HAMAS gunemen,etc. participated) held last month.
As for fuel shortages, Israel pumps 2.5 million liters of diesel every week, non stop EXCEPT when it needs to to regroup after a terrorist attack (3 of which have taken place in the last 6 months). In addition, as I have also explained a few times, for the last 2 months, DAILY, HAMAS gunmen have been hijacking at least 2 fifty three foot tankers a day as they pull out of the Nachal Oz Terminal. Israeli Intel has placed devices similar to Lo-Jacks on several trailers nad has been able to ascertain (backed by satellite imagry) that HAMAS offloads these tankers in HAMAS compounds throughout Gaza and most Gazans are fully aware of this.
This has been reported in the Western Media so I am sure you must be aware of it, although the focus has been to note Gazans' reactions to these crimes instead of concentrating on the hijackings themselves.
The claim of a shortage in medicine and supplies is also a lie. As stated, MANY times, we move 100 trailers a day containing both food stuffs AND medical supplies, etc. These trailers move 7 days a week AND under almost constant shelling.
NGOS, some, have vested interests and that is just the way the game is played. If you choose to believe them, instead of paying attention to the facts (sourced by the way which should thrill you), that is your choice. I can not make decisons for you.
For example, as I explained to you before, PIJ blew up 2 of the 7 electrical conduits at Erez, and then Israel was blamed for a shortage in electricity which effected about 225,000 Gazans throughout northern Gaza...despite the fact that Israeli technicians repaired these conduits night and day under almost constant shelling. How many nations would be repairing conduits for a People who are firinf mortars, RPGs, and rockets at them?
HAMAS murders 2 lorry drivers at Oz, and Israel is blamed for a fuel shortage. On and on and on and on. You will, evidently, continue to believe what you wish to believe and ignore reality. That of course is your option.
Would I like more? No. You know why? Your initial post detailed stoppages by Israel at a particular crossing immediately following a terrorist attack that took 2 innocent Israelis' lives. I told you that the article is outdated, which of course it was, bnecause there are NO closures now. The fact that biased NGOs choose to continue complaining is of no consequence.
Even when PIJ blew up the conduits, and passage had to be barred at Erez, we rerouted traffic to Karni and contnued the same rate of supply without stopping in terms of total numbers. These complaints are ridiculous and baseless. IF they had any basis in reality one could make a very quick and very easy case at the Hague. Are they? Of course not because there is no truth to it.
As for your second post, you did not have to say it, you DID INSINUATE it (actually alot more than insinuate) when you post a piece accusing Israel of denying Humanitarian materials to Gaza. Did you post it? YES. Ergo, why would you ever ask me that?
IF you blame Israel for a shortage or absence in material, then you blame Israel for the closure, that is common sense...very, very basic. The Gazans themselves caused it.
The Janurary 2008 candle light vigil was a propaganda rise, as was the similar vigil (it is important to note that this last one had pactically no participation by Gazans, only HAMAS gunemen,etc. participated) held last month.
As for fuel shortages, Israel pumps 2.5 million liters of diesel every week, non stop EXCEPT when it needs to to regroup after a terrorist attack (3 of which have taken place in the last 6 months). In addition, as I have also explained a few times, for the last 2 months, DAILY, HAMAS gunmen have been hijacking at least 2 fifty three foot tankers a day as they pull out of the Nachal Oz Terminal. Israeli Intel has placed devices similar to Lo-Jacks on several trailers nad has been able to ascertain (backed by satellite imagry) that HAMAS offloads these tankers in HAMAS compounds throughout Gaza and most Gazans are fully aware of this.
This has been reported in the Western Media so I am sure you must be aware of it, although the focus has been to note Gazans' reactions to these crimes instead of concentrating on the hijackings themselves.
The claim of a shortage in medicine and supplies is also a lie. As stated, MANY times, we move 100 trailers a day containing both food stuffs AND medical supplies, etc. These trailers move 7 days a week AND under almost constant shelling.
NGOS, some, have vested interests and that is just the way the game is played. If you choose to believe them, instead of paying attention to the facts (sourced by the way which should thrill you), that is your choice. I can not make decisons for you.
For example, as I explained to you before, PIJ blew up 2 of the 7 electrical conduits at Erez, and then Israel was blamed for a shortage in electricity which effected about 225,000 Gazans throughout northern Gaza...despite the fact that Israeli technicians repaired these conduits night and day under almost constant shelling. How many nations would be repairing conduits for a People who are firinf mortars, RPGs, and rockets at them?
HAMAS murders 2 lorry drivers at Oz, and Israel is blamed for a fuel shortage. On and on and on and on. You will, evidently, continue to believe what you wish to believe and ignore reality. That of course is your option.
Would I like more? No. You know why? Your initial post detailed stoppages by Israel at a particular crossing immediately following a terrorist attack that took 2 innocent Israelis' lives. I told you that the article is outdated, which of course it was, bnecause there are NO closures now. The fact that biased NGOs choose to continue complaining is of no consequence.
Even when PIJ blew up the conduits, and passage had to be barred at Erez, we rerouted traffic to Karni and contnued the same rate of supply without stopping in terms of total numbers. These complaints are ridiculous and baseless. IF they had any basis in reality one could make a very quick and very easy case at the Hague. Are they? Of course not because there is no truth to it.
As for your second post, you did not have to say it, you DID INSINUATE it (actually alot more than insinuate) when you post a piece accusing Israel of denying Humanitarian materials to Gaza. Did you post it? YES. Ergo, why would you ever ask me that?
IF you blame Israel for a shortage or absence in material, then you blame Israel for the closure, that is common sense...very, very basic. The Gazans themselves caused it.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
So where's your conclusive proof that Desmond Tutu is a rabid anti-Semite, Rach? Why don't you just come clean and admit you have none and that you're wrong? Or is it the case that your machismo won't let you?
You have nothing to offer to any discussion. Since you've arrived you've posted nothing but propaganda and endless smear stories. If you think that what you're doing is offering a 'different opinion' you're delusional.
You have nothing to offer to any discussion. Since you've arrived you've posted nothing but propaganda and endless smear stories. If you think that what you're doing is offering a 'different opinion' you're delusional.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
You can't help yourself can you?
There's a reason why people want links to back up your claims Rach. You're a compulsive liar and/or deluded individual who is no longer capable of distinguishing truth from fiction.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
The old will die and the young will forget. Ben Gurion
He was right - but he failed to note that if you keep reminding people, they won't forget. It's far more applicable to Israel and it's rapidly shrinking Jewish population nowadays.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Sorry - forgot to add the link for that piece above. It's part of a lengthy expose of shoddy journalism vis-a-vis ISM.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/mj.html
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/mj.html
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Well that's the biggest load of horseshit I've seen in ages. If you are anything to go by, criticism of Israel's actions in the West Bank and elsewhere is often met with the accusation of "anti-Semitism". It's a means of controlling the discourse and shutting down any debate that does not conform to your ideological contours.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
More propaganda bullshit. You attacked my link as being out of date (ironic that a poster normally devoid of providing links has the gall to criticise my link)...I provide you with up to date links.
Your rebuttal-waffle devoid of links. What a surprise
Oh yeah, how could I forget...that well known rabid anti semitic NGO known as Oxfam. Care to tell me what their vested interests are? Don't tell me-they were founded and run. by communists.
You're apologist wank makes me want to vomit.
Links?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
You're really taken by me aren't you phil? Its ok....I know you have some deep seated issues going on in that mind of yours-but really...I'm not interested in feeding your ego-go find someone else to bother there's a good lad. Either that or start one of your lesbo threads-you obviously get a real kick from them.
Nino: "Where is the conclusive proof that Tutu is a racist?": Racist is a bit of ajoke. We arer all of the same race. Race is an anthropologicla concept and outside of that arena should not even be disccused. Magnon and Neandretal are different races. Semites, which is what Jews are are classified as a sub-grouping of the Caucasian race. Tutu is clearly pro-Arab all the way so noone could ever claim he is an anti-Semite, could they. He is simply anti-Jewish AND anti-Israeli.
As for roof, the 2002 speech has been mnetioned by myself and one other poster so you could begin there, as well with the 2004 offical retraction where he admits he should not have used Nazi allegory to describe Jewish Lobbyists in the US.
Do we really need to continue this?
As for roof, the 2002 speech has been mnetioned by myself and one other poster so you could begin there, as well with the 2004 offical retraction where he admits he should not have used Nazi allegory to describe Jewish Lobbyists in the US.
Do we really need to continue this?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I find that weird and a bit disturbing. There's no link between those two Grandma posts, and no logic to your post. You're just stalking him. Grow up or get some help - whichever one it is you need. This is not acceptable, IMO.
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