Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Really? Where?
Is Desmond Tutu a rabid hater of Jews?
- Thread starter Grandma Death
- Start date
Really? Where?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You're trying so hard you're becoming rather obvious, phil.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Oh really? Now are you sure about that before I once again show you up?
You called me on the date of the link. I provided you with more up to date links. I cut through your propoganda like a knife. I notice you have not disproved the subsequent links I posted or indeed provided links of your own-as per normal.
Except any terminology used by Oxfam of the blockade is about the situation on the ground. Face facts Rach-despite what you think the blockade is having an adverse impact on the economy of Gaza, the well being of the population of Gaza etc and all they are doing (as an organisation providing help for those effected by the blockade) is reflecting the state of play on the ground. Because Oxfam choose not to condemn one 'side' means nothing. Find me an NGO that will release press statements that reflect the current situation for both 'sides' and I will eat my words. There are none-it doesnt mean there is a bias of any sorts. The problem here is you perceive there to be a bias where clearly there is none.
This makes little sense. Are you suggesting that communists have an inherent bias against Israel?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
So Rach-are am I likely to see this list sometime this decade?
Please tell me you have more than the speech quoted as evidence of some sort of hatred of Jews?
Unless you have I'm sorry to tell you this-once again you have used a poor choice of words and fallen on your arse (again)-as was the case with the previous claims you couldnt back up.
Please tell me you have more than the speech quoted as evidence of some sort of hatred of Jews?
Unless you have I'm sorry to tell you this-once again you have used a poor choice of words and fallen on your arse (again)-as was the case with the previous claims you couldnt back up.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
How long is it so far for this one?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Just checked he first promised the list on the 31st May 2008
Since then he's promised the list an addtional 4 or 5 times IIRC over both Tutu threads.
Again over both Tutu threads he's:
Stated that HRW were 'founded by and continuously run by communists' and he's been pulled up on that. Thus far-no evidence to back up his claim despite being asked several times. Infact he even claims at one point to have actually provided evidence too back up his his claim-but be fucked if I can see where
He's also claimed that 'UN Panel for Human Rights that in its first years of existence only examined cases involving Israel.....again totally unsubstantiated. The reality is they looked at other countries other than Israel (Darfur for one) but they only passed resolutions on Israel.
So far over two threads he's been very lacking in providing links when asked; ignoring requests by several posters for the elusive Tutu list and finally he's threatened to not provide it if he's asked too many times.
Just a normal day in the ME forums then
Just a normal day in the ME forums then
But if Rach were to provide all these links and lists what would you have left to post about?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
But if Rach were to provide all these links and lists what would you have left to post about?
Its one list
YMU:"Rachamim is libelous and a liar.": Given the temporary suspensions that Mods have been doling out lately for personal insults, I suggest that you tread carefully.
It is kind of sad that I brought to your attention the fact that you have been doing nothing but calling em a liar for a while now and you then opt to respond with a single sentence saying the same exact nonsense.
With that said...You insist that susan Barclay was in America on the date of that piece, March 20th, and that since the case involving the wanted TERORIST took place on the 27th (March, 2003) that she could not have been involved. You also say that my maitaning otherwise makes me a liar.
I will admit that there ARE a couple of propaganda pieces that say that EXACTLY, including a Wiki entry for ISM that is evidently written by a member of the organisation.
However, she was not only in Israel ("West Bank" actually) at the time of the event, she was not even deported until April 12th. I contacted someobody who brought me up to speed on the whole thing. In the last week of Feburary she was arrested she was detained at Hawarra Checkpoint in Shechem (you probably call it Nablus) by the 202nd Battalion for Secuity related issues.
ALLEGEDLY she was wanted for interfering with the construction of a gate that was being installed in the Security Barrier in a populated portion of Shechem. the 202nd held her for SHABAK, who picked her up and only ALLEGEDLY gave her a cursory interrogation before dropping her off at Michal Detention Ctr. in Chadera (AKA Hadera in the West).
ALLEGEDLY she cried quite a bit and begged for cigarettes. She was allowed, after her interrogation period finished, to use the telephone and called a representative of her organisation, who contacted an Israeli member of the organisation, who in turn delivered her phone cards, cigarettes, and books.
The court accepted a Deportation Order from the Interior Ministry for her but then released her on Immigration Parole. She HAD been staying at the house of a local family, a well known family since there have spawned a number of deadly terrorists (al Titi Clan), in Balata Camp near Shechem. On the day of her release she was picked up by 7 members of her organisation who joined her on a taxi ride to a point near Qalkilya where 4 of them infiltrated the W"B" and split into 2 groups of 2 persons each (ALLEGEDLY), 1 heading to Shechem and the other to Beit Sahur.
Allegedly she was part of the pair feading to Shechem where she met a member of al Titi who gave her a duffle bag containing her personal effects. She and her ISM friend then took a taxi to Jenin where she became the de facto leader of the chapter.
She was there on the 27th when Sukiya was invited in and they helped to try and keep the IDF from discovering him after first barring entry to the soldiers. 2 AKs, a pistol, and ammunition were found in alcove kitchen area.
Sukiya and 2 others were subsequently arrested after question, with Barclay being taken back to Chadera in Israel proper.
She fought a 2nd Detention Order but was deported, am VERY happy to say on the 12th of April, 2003.
So...While I cannot fault you for thinking what you do since ISM is , as always, being highly deceptive BUT had you bothered to look at anything aisde from propaganda you would have known that she was indeed in the region on the 27th, and that the piece in that tiny Washington State periodical was either a snafu or purposely deceitful. I would guess it is the latter but only because I know the atmosphere at Evergreen State College (Corrie's alma mater ironically). The main commons is officialy called "Red Square" so it is clear that there is a heavy ideological bias in that part of the US.
It is kind of sad that I brought to your attention the fact that you have been doing nothing but calling em a liar for a while now and you then opt to respond with a single sentence saying the same exact nonsense.
With that said...You insist that susan Barclay was in America on the date of that piece, March 20th, and that since the case involving the wanted TERORIST took place on the 27th (March, 2003) that she could not have been involved. You also say that my maitaning otherwise makes me a liar.
I will admit that there ARE a couple of propaganda pieces that say that EXACTLY, including a Wiki entry for ISM that is evidently written by a member of the organisation.
However, she was not only in Israel ("West Bank" actually) at the time of the event, she was not even deported until April 12th. I contacted someobody who brought me up to speed on the whole thing. In the last week of Feburary she was arrested she was detained at Hawarra Checkpoint in Shechem (you probably call it Nablus) by the 202nd Battalion for Secuity related issues.
ALLEGEDLY she was wanted for interfering with the construction of a gate that was being installed in the Security Barrier in a populated portion of Shechem. the 202nd held her for SHABAK, who picked her up and only ALLEGEDLY gave her a cursory interrogation before dropping her off at Michal Detention Ctr. in Chadera (AKA Hadera in the West).
ALLEGEDLY she cried quite a bit and begged for cigarettes. She was allowed, after her interrogation period finished, to use the telephone and called a representative of her organisation, who contacted an Israeli member of the organisation, who in turn delivered her phone cards, cigarettes, and books.
The court accepted a Deportation Order from the Interior Ministry for her but then released her on Immigration Parole. She HAD been staying at the house of a local family, a well known family since there have spawned a number of deadly terrorists (al Titi Clan), in Balata Camp near Shechem. On the day of her release she was picked up by 7 members of her organisation who joined her on a taxi ride to a point near Qalkilya where 4 of them infiltrated the W"B" and split into 2 groups of 2 persons each (ALLEGEDLY), 1 heading to Shechem and the other to Beit Sahur.
Allegedly she was part of the pair feading to Shechem where she met a member of al Titi who gave her a duffle bag containing her personal effects. She and her ISM friend then took a taxi to Jenin where she became the de facto leader of the chapter.
She was there on the 27th when Sukiya was invited in and they helped to try and keep the IDF from discovering him after first barring entry to the soldiers. 2 AKs, a pistol, and ammunition were found in alcove kitchen area.
Sukiya and 2 others were subsequently arrested after question, with Barclay being taken back to Chadera in Israel proper.
She fought a 2nd Detention Order but was deported, am VERY happy to say on the 12th of April, 2003.
So...While I cannot fault you for thinking what you do since ISM is , as always, being highly deceptive BUT had you bothered to look at anything aisde from propaganda you would have known that she was indeed in the region on the 27th, and that the piece in that tiny Washington State periodical was either a snafu or purposely deceitful. I would guess it is the latter but only because I know the atmosphere at Evergreen State College (Corrie's alma mater ironically). The main commons is officialy called "Red Square" so it is clear that there is a heavy ideological bias in that part of the US.
Grandma: "Grandma can see that Rachamim did not disprove the allegations by OxFam,et al.": I will give you some figures, perhaps that will give you soemthing to gnaw on (there goes that imagery again). I also , before providing them, want to remind you and any readers that Israel ships a MINIMUM of one hundred 53 foot trailers worth of humanitarian commodities DAILY (despite constant attacks), and a minimum of 2.5 million liters of diesel fuel each week.
In reality though, the actual number is far higher than that; Offering 3 days worth of statistics just to give you an idea of what is handled day in , day out, 7 days a week and under constant terrorism from the Arabs whome we are serving (as well as NGOs who serve them).
3/10/08:
Sufa Crossing: 59 trailers.
Kerem Shalom Crossing: 5 trailers.
Karni Terminal which is now called, in English, Karni Crossing Conveyor (an elaborate conveyor belt system has been installed to speed the transfer of goods as well as offer much greater protection from terrorism): 81 trailers.
Nachal Oz Terminal: 27 tanker trailers.
A PARTIAL list of goods that day: 2,800 tonnes of beans, corn, and livestock feed. 320 liquid tonnes of heating gas, 695,000 liters of petrol.
2,800 tonnes is the consistent average at Karni alone. Sufa and Shalom handle medicine and other food stuffs.
3/11/08:
Sufa:72 trailers.
Kerem Shalom: 21 trailers.
Karni: 61 trailers.
Oz: 27 tankers.
The same goods listed above, in the same amounts were part of those loads.
3/12/08:
Sufa: 54 trailers.
Kerem Shalom: 22 trailers.
Karni: NOTHING.
Oz: 28 tankers.
I do not have any commodity data for that day, just a total tally on shipping equipment, but I do have the data for Oz: 248 liquid tonnes of heating gas and 640,000 liters of petrol.
Soooo, as you can clearly see, your sources are engaging in propaganda and being deceitful. AGAIN, I want to reiterate how these commodities are handled as RPGs, Qassams, and mortars rain down on all 4 of those facilities.
In reality though, the actual number is far higher than that; Offering 3 days worth of statistics just to give you an idea of what is handled day in , day out, 7 days a week and under constant terrorism from the Arabs whome we are serving (as well as NGOs who serve them).
3/10/08:
Sufa Crossing: 59 trailers.
Kerem Shalom Crossing: 5 trailers.
Karni Terminal which is now called, in English, Karni Crossing Conveyor (an elaborate conveyor belt system has been installed to speed the transfer of goods as well as offer much greater protection from terrorism): 81 trailers.
Nachal Oz Terminal: 27 tanker trailers.
A PARTIAL list of goods that day: 2,800 tonnes of beans, corn, and livestock feed. 320 liquid tonnes of heating gas, 695,000 liters of petrol.
2,800 tonnes is the consistent average at Karni alone. Sufa and Shalom handle medicine and other food stuffs.
3/11/08:
Sufa:72 trailers.
Kerem Shalom: 21 trailers.
Karni: 61 trailers.
Oz: 27 tankers.
The same goods listed above, in the same amounts were part of those loads.
3/12/08:
Sufa: 54 trailers.
Kerem Shalom: 22 trailers.
Karni: NOTHING.
Oz: 28 tankers.
I do not have any commodity data for that day, just a total tally on shipping equipment, but I do have the data for Oz: 248 liquid tonnes of heating gas and 640,000 liters of petrol.
Soooo, as you can clearly see, your sources are engaging in propaganda and being deceitful. AGAIN, I want to reiterate how these commodities are handled as RPGs, Qassams, and mortars rain down on all 4 of those facilities.
Grandma: "Facts on the ground.": Of course I agree with you. As you can se though, "facts on the ground" are far, far, far different than what is being handed to you by these ingenuous NGOs. I mean, if you realne want to see for yourself, just take a look at one donor alone sends to the Strip and you will be amazed, let alone that we trans-ship it all or them and donate more than all of the donor entities put together.
For the record, ECHO is the largest contributor apart from Israel (ECHO being European Commission Humanitarian Aid Office).
"Whatever Rachamim thinks, the Closure is having a negative impact on the Gaza economy.": Wait, I never said it was not. In fact, it negatively impacts the economy of the "WB" which I believe (I would need to recheck but apologise for not feeling like digging) is in single digit growth at this point. There are many factors for that but Gaza's dire economy is the direct result of the Israeli Action.
In fact, speaking of Gaza, one of my sons was telling me that at the Gold Souk in Gaza City they are melting all the gold into boullion. Gold is a traditional way to save money in both Jewish and Arab Cultures and many residents are begging to sell their heirlooms. Problem though is that noone wants to buy it (compounding the issue is the fact that gold is at an almost all time hhigh so things are incredibly bad).
You have to understand a couple of things though. We ceded Gaza in its entirety in August of 2005. The people of Gaza could have used that as the building block of their long talked about nation but instead, as the last vehichles full of Israelis were leaving PIJ attempted a Suicide Bombing on us. The next day HAMAS began launching Qassams (they did not begin then though) and rarely a day has passed since that we have not had at least 5 landing in Israel Proper.
Then HAMAS staged a coup and left Israel with no choice. It was anarchy. If you had it on your doorstep I hesitate to imagine that you would support it.
Noone is dying of hunger there (although UNRWA reportes single digit to 13% malnourishment among children which has no rationale given the amount of commodities and AID being given each day). The biggest complaint beging given by the NGOs there is the lack of fuel. That problem is the fault of HAMAS who not only allow PIJ freehand to commit terrorism against the sources of Gazan infrastructure but themselves hijack lorries carrying petrol for the Gazan Association (consortioum of petrol outlets in Gaza).
Even though it is the fault of HAMAS and PIJ Israel tries to compensate by bringing more fuel through Oz.The more Israel transfers the more HAMAS takes. It is a cycle and the people of Gaza are well aware. This is why HAMAS police had to serve as taxis for about 2 weeks, offering FREE rides to anyone who asked. they were almost in dire straits.
I have to disagree with you on NGOs that are never objective. There ARE some. Granted you will not see them in Darfur or Gaza but they exist. It is different with those who serve Gaza,etc. On one hand I realise that they need to create an envirobnment where they can fufill their mission statement without interference from locals, but on the other I ask myself if that is not too ihgh a price to pay.
By involving themselves in making political pronouncements, and that is exactly what it is, they are over stepping their bounds. It also must be incredibly frustrating for them working in these conditions but they also must understand that those Israelis living under CONSTANT threat of terrorism it is also not easy.
Israel would be remiss were it not to take every step possible to protect its own people.
Is Rachamim suggesting that Communists have an inherent bias against Israel.": YES, DEFINITELY. It dates to 1950 when the Soviets turned tale on us. Communism prides itself on representing the downtrodden and who could be perceives as such in this dynamic? The world's 4th largest army, 1st in operation expereince and ability? Or the stone throwing youth crying for a lost and beloved "homeland?"
In reality, "Palestinians" are far from powerless but it is also a fact that Israel is more powerful and able. Marxism was very much in vogue within the "Palestinian Struggle" and can still be seen in a very small degree.
When the NGOs in question came to be the Soviets were staunch foes of Israel and firm supporters of its enemies. Communists of today merely carry on that part of orthadox Communist ideology.
For the record, ECHO is the largest contributor apart from Israel (ECHO being European Commission Humanitarian Aid Office).
"Whatever Rachamim thinks, the Closure is having a negative impact on the Gaza economy.": Wait, I never said it was not. In fact, it negatively impacts the economy of the "WB" which I believe (I would need to recheck but apologise for not feeling like digging) is in single digit growth at this point. There are many factors for that but Gaza's dire economy is the direct result of the Israeli Action.
In fact, speaking of Gaza, one of my sons was telling me that at the Gold Souk in Gaza City they are melting all the gold into boullion. Gold is a traditional way to save money in both Jewish and Arab Cultures and many residents are begging to sell their heirlooms. Problem though is that noone wants to buy it (compounding the issue is the fact that gold is at an almost all time hhigh so things are incredibly bad).
You have to understand a couple of things though. We ceded Gaza in its entirety in August of 2005. The people of Gaza could have used that as the building block of their long talked about nation but instead, as the last vehichles full of Israelis were leaving PIJ attempted a Suicide Bombing on us. The next day HAMAS began launching Qassams (they did not begin then though) and rarely a day has passed since that we have not had at least 5 landing in Israel Proper.
Then HAMAS staged a coup and left Israel with no choice. It was anarchy. If you had it on your doorstep I hesitate to imagine that you would support it.
Noone is dying of hunger there (although UNRWA reportes single digit to 13% malnourishment among children which has no rationale given the amount of commodities and AID being given each day). The biggest complaint beging given by the NGOs there is the lack of fuel. That problem is the fault of HAMAS who not only allow PIJ freehand to commit terrorism against the sources of Gazan infrastructure but themselves hijack lorries carrying petrol for the Gazan Association (consortioum of petrol outlets in Gaza).
Even though it is the fault of HAMAS and PIJ Israel tries to compensate by bringing more fuel through Oz.The more Israel transfers the more HAMAS takes. It is a cycle and the people of Gaza are well aware. This is why HAMAS police had to serve as taxis for about 2 weeks, offering FREE rides to anyone who asked. they were almost in dire straits.
I have to disagree with you on NGOs that are never objective. There ARE some. Granted you will not see them in Darfur or Gaza but they exist. It is different with those who serve Gaza,etc. On one hand I realise that they need to create an envirobnment where they can fufill their mission statement without interference from locals, but on the other I ask myself if that is not too ihgh a price to pay.
By involving themselves in making political pronouncements, and that is exactly what it is, they are over stepping their bounds. It also must be incredibly frustrating for them working in these conditions but they also must understand that those Israelis living under CONSTANT threat of terrorism it is also not easy.
Israel would be remiss were it not to take every step possible to protect its own people.
Is Rachamim suggesting that Communists have an inherent bias against Israel.": YES, DEFINITELY. It dates to 1950 when the Soviets turned tale on us. Communism prides itself on representing the downtrodden and who could be perceives as such in this dynamic? The world's 4th largest army, 1st in operation expereince and ability? Or the stone throwing youth crying for a lost and beloved "homeland?"
In reality, "Palestinians" are far from powerless but it is also a fact that Israel is more powerful and able. Marxism was very much in vogue within the "Palestinian Struggle" and can still be seen in a very small degree.
When the NGOs in question came to be the Soviets were staunch foes of Israel and firm supporters of its enemies. Communists of today merely carry on that part of orthadox Communist ideology.
Grandma: "List." Very soon I would think. Always something else on my plate but I think it would be good to post it. Everyone has this false image of the man and I would love to put it out there. Yes, I do have more than that one speech but you know, that speech is pretty important.
Glad to see you paying attention to my posts but I also stand by the two other points you are taking issue with (those particular NGOs and Communism, and the UN Human Rights Commission. I think that I will probably iniate a thread on the latter).
Of course Malamud has a point. Maybe I should look at my being remiss as a gift to you. Anyway, I am sure that both you and my self esteem will survive until I do satisfy your curiosity (as if).
Glad to see you paying attention to my posts but I also stand by the two other points you are taking issue with (those particular NGOs and Communism, and the UN Human Rights Commission. I think that I will probably iniate a thread on the latter).
Of course Malamud has a point. Maybe I should look at my being remiss as a gift to you. Anyway, I am sure that both you and my self esteem will survive until I do satisfy your curiosity (as if).
Hasn't rachamim18 been doing that for years, posting walls of text without any verifyable references?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
FFS Rach use the quote button and while your at it if you MUST insist on acting PC Illiterate then please actually quote what exactly was said not what you think was said
Again with the waffle-and waffle without any link to back it up or indeed is pertinent to the point we are debating here. Rach seriously just start posting links to your claims-it would make life more bearable if I and other forum users could verify what you are saying.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Yes so do I.
To you maybe but its not evidence of a hatred for jews-and no one here agrees with you on that one. So are we all delusional?
I agree.....you always stand by what you say-but you struggle to evidence your claims don't you. That clear for everyone to see. Stick to what you have claimed on this thread and don't start another thread.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Do either of you think that was constructive?
Does it have to be, just as long as it is informative?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
I myself am struggling to define your contribution to this forum, both in particular (threads), and in general (overall).Do either of you think that was constructive?
It is clear to me that Tutu is not a rabid hater of Jews and that he has been misrepresented over in America to American Jews on the whole by the ZOA, esp. Morton Klein who first reported Tutu as saying things that in fact he never actually said. Some reporters then used Klein's quotes of Tutu without checking their facts first and the mis-reporting spread like wildfire.
Whilst this pointless focus on things Tutu never said goes on, being largely unreported in America and elsewhere goes this:
Dispensationalist Christian 'Zionist' Hagee says Hitler was G-d's intrument to ingather Jews in Israel (before their annhilation so that Jesus will return - main dispensationlist creed);
Mikey Weinstein's home is attacked
Jewish Veteran is verbally accused of being responsible for flooding in Iowa for protesting evangelical proselytising during hospitalisation
Read it here: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Do either of you think that was constructive?
I would hope that this is not an attempt to start up some sort of new personal spat here.
I can assure you it was not.
Do either of you think that was constructive?
Of course that was constructive. He needs to provide verifyable sources for his vast claims. At the moment reading through all the stuff he writes is a waste of time because I have no way of know if what he writes is fact or fiction.
Tangent: "Klein.": If in fact you are ferring to the 89 speech Tutu made, HE MADE IT. It is not false. Anyway, how would that ngate his 2002 speech? Apples and oranges really. The man has made it quite clear and in fact hs has company. Virtually the entire hierarchy of the Presbyrterian Church, SABEEL, factions within the various Methodists sects, and so on. Even the Eastern Orthadox Churches (above and beyond SABEEL) have dirt on their hands.
Just because Tutu has done good in one area does not then erase those bad things he has done. Anyone who could call Mugabe a great man has some scremws quite loose (yes, I know he no longer "feels" that way but Mugabe has been crocked from get).
I am also well aware of your feelings on Christain Zionists, who I might interestingly add, are the pet peeve of the Presbyterian Synod so you have people that obviously agree with soemthing you are saying. Look who they are.
Christain Zionists and Jews are like a Whore and a John. The question remains to be answered, "Who is the whore?" See, that is exactly how a tactical alliance works and it is accepted by both sides. Why then would it irk you so much? Whether you can see it or not, it does benefit Israel more than nayone else in the tangible sense.
Fridge: I also find it VERY interesting that you would question whether or not Malamud was trying to iniate more nonsense when it is quite clear that he was seeking to head it off. He saw people engaging in personal nonsense and brought it to their attention, and evidently yours. To then possibly fault him for it seems a bit bizarre.
Of course, when people insult Rachamim, it is not seen as personal nonsense . So be it. Personally it is water over my shoulder but it is amatter of principle. If there is going to be a policy, it should be a blanket policy. Asking whether or not one considers soemthing to be constructive is not disruptive (or should not be) in the least. Ideally it would cause introspection that might then result in improved behavior because to be honest, insulting me or anyone else is NOT constructive in the very least.
TAE: "Of course it was constructive, Rachamim needs to provide sources for his vast claims.": WHAT? IPeople here should be researching subjects that apprently interest them. I realise the younger set is brainwashed into thinking research and Google are synonymous but most adults realise otherwise.
As it is, I am able to get factoids one usually will never find online. How then do I source it according to your standards? Scan offical IDF or MFA doumentation and risk a prison sentece or at the very least a nice long talking to at the consulate (again)?
I am careful to point out ALLEGATIONS, as well as concentrate my efforts in areas that have previously been rehashed in other arenas so that I dig myself a deep, deep hole.
Breifly, I will outline soemthing that happened not too long ago in Israel. On the Hiway between Tel Aviv and Herz'liyya there is a government facility that is extremely highly classified. Even revealing what I just did could have got me a long prison sentence not too long ago. An Israeli daily published the location and the building's purpose and immedtaely the reporter and her editor were incracerated incognito. It is taken very serious at home. The paper's legal team found that this particular information had previously been published in Norway so that both were able to avoid prison, but still got a rating on their dossiers.
Using one issue we have talked about, goods crossing into Gaza, it is highly classified infromation and cannot be given in detail beyond the total number of trailers, total weight in certain commodities such as diesel and home heating gas, cereals such as animal feed, corn, and legumes. Anything else including medicines are forbidden to disclose. Ergo, I skate a rather thin line and I am quite conscious of it.
To provide soemthing you might consider proof is not really a compelling issue for me. You can sit there imagining if you will, that I pulled the number of trailers out of the air, imagines the tonnage, and so forth. In reality, they are quite real and if you actually research this issueyou just might find it already in circulation.
'
Same with the case of the coddler of terrorists Susan Barclay. I get my information from sources you could not even imagine and I cannot simply direct you to a snappy webpage containing this or that. If you search though you can find some of what I have posted and that in deduction should allow you to make an intelligent and informed decison.
If instead you wish to imagine me as some loon making up numbers just so I could intellectually best someone whose name I do not even know, that is also your freedom to do so.
As you do that though, I wuill continue offering factual rebuttals where I see clearcut propaganda or just plain old imaccuracies. There ARE cases where there ARE pages that verify things I said. One related example would be the issue of Israel's stated minimum that at least 100 fifty three feet trailers of commodities will cross into Gaza every day, 7 days a week. I was asked to verify this and indeed was able to find 2 seaprate articles (one in Ha'aretz , the other in the Jerusalem Post) that did state this.
In addition, the Col. in chrage of all Gazan Corssings and what crosses was deployed temporariliy to the UN and a NYC based media initiative to offer many of these and other facts relating to Israel's administration of Gaza.
Ergo, perhaps if you contact either the UN, MFA, or UNRWA themselves, you might get a detailed reply that satisfied your evident curiosity.
Just because Tutu has done good in one area does not then erase those bad things he has done. Anyone who could call Mugabe a great man has some scremws quite loose (yes, I know he no longer "feels" that way but Mugabe has been crocked from get).
I am also well aware of your feelings on Christain Zionists, who I might interestingly add, are the pet peeve of the Presbyterian Synod so you have people that obviously agree with soemthing you are saying. Look who they are.
Christain Zionists and Jews are like a Whore and a John. The question remains to be answered, "Who is the whore?" See, that is exactly how a tactical alliance works and it is accepted by both sides. Why then would it irk you so much? Whether you can see it or not, it does benefit Israel more than nayone else in the tangible sense.
Fridge: I also find it VERY interesting that you would question whether or not Malamud was trying to iniate more nonsense when it is quite clear that he was seeking to head it off. He saw people engaging in personal nonsense and brought it to their attention, and evidently yours. To then possibly fault him for it seems a bit bizarre.
Of course, when people insult Rachamim, it is not seen as personal nonsense . So be it. Personally it is water over my shoulder but it is amatter of principle. If there is going to be a policy, it should be a blanket policy. Asking whether or not one considers soemthing to be constructive is not disruptive (or should not be) in the least. Ideally it would cause introspection that might then result in improved behavior because to be honest, insulting me or anyone else is NOT constructive in the very least.
TAE: "Of course it was constructive, Rachamim needs to provide sources for his vast claims.": WHAT? IPeople here should be researching subjects that apprently interest them. I realise the younger set is brainwashed into thinking research and Google are synonymous but most adults realise otherwise.
As it is, I am able to get factoids one usually will never find online. How then do I source it according to your standards? Scan offical IDF or MFA doumentation and risk a prison sentece or at the very least a nice long talking to at the consulate (again)?
I am careful to point out ALLEGATIONS, as well as concentrate my efforts in areas that have previously been rehashed in other arenas so that I dig myself a deep, deep hole.
Breifly, I will outline soemthing that happened not too long ago in Israel. On the Hiway between Tel Aviv and Herz'liyya there is a government facility that is extremely highly classified. Even revealing what I just did could have got me a long prison sentence not too long ago. An Israeli daily published the location and the building's purpose and immedtaely the reporter and her editor were incracerated incognito. It is taken very serious at home. The paper's legal team found that this particular information had previously been published in Norway so that both were able to avoid prison, but still got a rating on their dossiers.
Using one issue we have talked about, goods crossing into Gaza, it is highly classified infromation and cannot be given in detail beyond the total number of trailers, total weight in certain commodities such as diesel and home heating gas, cereals such as animal feed, corn, and legumes. Anything else including medicines are forbidden to disclose. Ergo, I skate a rather thin line and I am quite conscious of it.
To provide soemthing you might consider proof is not really a compelling issue for me. You can sit there imagining if you will, that I pulled the number of trailers out of the air, imagines the tonnage, and so forth. In reality, they are quite real and if you actually research this issueyou just might find it already in circulation.
'
Same with the case of the coddler of terrorists Susan Barclay. I get my information from sources you could not even imagine and I cannot simply direct you to a snappy webpage containing this or that. If you search though you can find some of what I have posted and that in deduction should allow you to make an intelligent and informed decison.
If instead you wish to imagine me as some loon making up numbers just so I could intellectually best someone whose name I do not even know, that is also your freedom to do so.
As you do that though, I wuill continue offering factual rebuttals where I see clearcut propaganda or just plain old imaccuracies. There ARE cases where there ARE pages that verify things I said. One related example would be the issue of Israel's stated minimum that at least 100 fifty three feet trailers of commodities will cross into Gaza every day, 7 days a week. I was asked to verify this and indeed was able to find 2 seaprate articles (one in Ha'aretz , the other in the Jerusalem Post) that did state this.
In addition, the Col. in chrage of all Gazan Corssings and what crosses was deployed temporariliy to the UN and a NYC based media initiative to offer many of these and other facts relating to Israel's administration of Gaza.
Ergo, perhaps if you contact either the UN, MFA, or UNRWA themselves, you might get a detailed reply that satisfied your evident curiosity.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Where's the list rach?
How many times have people asked you to use the QUOTE function on this forum?
Look, just write {QUOTE=TAE}the text goes here{/QUOTE}, but use [ and ] instread of { and }.
Look, just write {QUOTE=TAE}the text goes here{/QUOTE}, but use [ and ] instread of { and }.
No, it's like at university, you state the source if you make a significant claim.
You cold say: "I read in offical IDF or MFA doumentation that ...". Not that many people would trust these documents even if you did link to them, but at least we'd have some idea where your claims are coming from. BTW, if you have access to such secrets, should you be discussing them at all?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Er, in what way? Then you say "Who is the whore"? If that is the case, why make the comparison? Furthermore, how is the Christian Zionist project favourable to "Jews"? The Xtian Zionists want to see the extermination of the Jewish people. Surely, you have heard of The Rapture?
Nonsense. They want to see the *conversion* of the Jews.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
No. You are incorrect. They have a maximum number of 'saved', and they must have converted (Messianic Jews i.e. Jews for Jesus and Christianised 'Jews') the remainder will perish in their Armageddon II
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