Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Kid_Eternity]

This has always been part of the tragedy of the Palestinians. The Egyptian authorities, Jordanian authorities, etc, don't give a fuck about them either.

Jordan hosting a million Syrian refugees probably means they have their hands full.

 

[Duncan2]

The Republic of Egypt ought to open the Rafah crossing to the people of the Gaza Strip, send in relief supplies, and mobilise the Egyptian armed forces to protect supplies going in, and people leaving.

problem with that is Israel will assume that those who remain behind are Hamas.

 

[PR1Berske]

You can believe what you like, I'll wait a while before determining iran's behind everything

Iran's support for Putin makes their assisting Hamas most likely.

 

[cesare]

I was using the expression in a Private Eye kind of way - though to my knowledge Chukka Umuna never made it into Private Eye. Unlike Chris Williamson of course.

A fiver on it that he did.

 

[Raheem]

Iran's support for Putin makes their assisting Hamas most likely.

This sounds irrational but not quite crazy. Try harder.

 

[Duncan2]

.

 

[Pickman's model]

Iran's support for Putin makes their assisting Hamas most likely.

There seems to be a few sentences missing from your post

 

[Pickman's model]

.

Good point well made

 

[Gramsci]

The Republic of Egypt ought to open the Rafah crossing to the people of the Gaza Strip, send in relief supplies, and mobilise the Egyptian armed forces to protect supplies going in, and people leaving.

I was listening the the First Minister of Scotland. Humza Yousaf. Some of his relatives heard that the border was open. Packed their bags to go and then heard Israel had bombed it. Its been bombed several times. I thought the Israeli military were supposed to be good at military stuff. Either they are incompetent or people in Gaza are being told on the one hand to go to the crossing and on other it may be bombed again. The Israeli government / military should guarantee first that bombing of it will stop.

 

[dilute micro]

Has anyone noticed the use of fatality statistics by our media? I may have misunderstood summat here, so feel free to correct me. Israel says 1,200 of its citizens have been killed so far. Gazans claim up to 1,000 killed by air strikes. Yet Israel also claims 1,500 Hamas fighters have been killed. Is this right? If so the asymmetry seems quite large so early on in this conflict.

I think only Israel can give a number on Hamas, since their bodies are in various places inside Israel. I've taken the Gazan deaths to be the number within Gaza.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I think only Israel can give a number on Hamas, since their bodies are in various places inside Israel. I've taken the Gazan deaths to be the number within Gaza.

So more Palestinians have been killed in Israel so far, despite the massacres of unarmed civilians by Hamas?

 

[Pickman's model]

I was listening the the First Minister of Scotland. Humza Yousaf. Some of his relatives heard that the border was open. Packed their bags to go and then heard Israel had bombed it. Its been bombed several times. I thought the Israeli military were supposed to be good at military stuff. Either they are incompetent or people in Gaza are being told on the one hand to go to the crossing and on other it may be bombed again. The Israeli government / military should guarantee first that bombing of it will stop.

Or the zionists are cruel

 

[Dystopiary]

hmm think most people who would attend the demos are more than likely at one

seeming as it the fash that start the Nazi shit don't see many turning up at pro Palestine demo with a bunch lefties in attendance. wrong crowd



last one I was at in Dublin , cannie speak for London was not fash orientated

But it's not just fash who can be antisemitic unfortunately.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Iran's support for Putin makes their assisting Hamas most likely.

Iran’s been a funder and supporter for Hamas for years. Senior Hamas members met with Iranian leadership days before the terror attacks…

 

[Gramsci]

Listening to Owen Jones / Margaret Hodge interview.

Owen Jones started by condemning Hamas attack. Then went on to say that Gaza should not be subject to collective punishment.

Hodge laid into him. According to her he is "obsessed" with Palestinians and should condemn Hamas ( he had).

So this is example of how it is now across mainstream politics. Any mention of Palestinians and your not condemning Hamas.

Being against collective punishment - Which I thought can amount to a war crime- shows an unhealthy "obsession" with Palestinians.

 

[dilute micro]

So more Palestinians have been killed in Israel so far, despite the massacres of unarmed civilians by Hamas?

That's how I've assessed. But that will be the truth in the end anyhow.

 

[Ax^]

But it's not just fash who can be antisemitic unfortunately.

aye and you can also criticizes the actions of the state of israel without being anti semitic

its a mad world

 

[The39thStep]

A fiver on it that he did.

You minx

 

[Dystopiary]

aye and you can also criticizes the actions of the state of israel without being anti semitic

its a mad world

Oh come on, there are definitely people on the left who do more than that. Look at Chris Williamson mentioned above, or George Galloway, and loads of posts on social media. Of course you can criticise Israel's actions and policies and the IDF without being antisemitic but there are plenty of people who can't seem to manage it. They might be a minority but they're poison and it's essential we acknowledge it for what it is and call it out.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Listening to Owen Jones / Margaret Hodge interview.

Owen Jones started by condemning Hamas attack. Then went on to say that Gaza should not be subject to collective punishment.

Hodge laid into him. According to her he is "obsessed" with Palestinians and should condemn Hamas ( he had).

So this is example of how it is now across mainstream politics. Any mention of Palestinians and your not condemning Hamas.

Being against collective punishment - Which I thought can amount to a war crime- shows an unhealthy "obsession" with Palestinians.

Hodge is utterly vile, always has been. Her family’s financial links to apartheid, the Camden Council child abuse stuff, then after working alongside Corbyn for many years suddenly ‘discovering’ he was anti-Semitic when of course he isn’t. The only good thing to say of her is if she supports something, that means it’s unsupportable. It is an indictment of our political system that she is given any credence at all…..

 

[dilute micro]

There's got to be more than a few leaders across the globe who are telling Netanyahu it might be a good idea to turn on the electricity.

 

[Knotted]

Hodge comes across as so dripping in racism that she can't understand how anyone might not be.

 

[strung out]

Baby beheading lies

What we actually know about the viral report of beheaded babies in Israel

One journalist from the Tel Aviv-based news channel i24 said a soldier told her they had "witnessed… bodies of babies with their heads cut off" at the Kfar Aza kibbutz near the Gaza border - but no Israeli officials have confirmed the claim.

news.sky.com

Why are you so keen to downplay or deny these atrocities?

Biden has just confirmed he's seen evidence of the beheadings, and while I'm still not taking that as absolute confirmation that they definitely happened, the desperation by people to instantly denounce the claims as lies, sure does fit in to the denial/apologist pathway I mentioned upthread.

 

[Ax^]

Oh come on, there are definitely people on the left who do more than that. Look at Chris Williamson mentioned above, or George Galloway, and loads of posts on social media. Of course you can criticise Israel's actions and policies and the IDF without being antisemitic but there are plenty of people who can't seem to manage it. They might be a minority but they're poison and it's essential we acknowledge it for what it is and call it out.

agreed never said there are not dodgy characters on the left or people who used the position for their own agenda

just like people on the right

 

[agricola]

I was listening the the First Minister of Scotland. Humza Yousaf. Some of his relatives heard that the border was open. Packed their bags to go and then heard Israel had bombed it. Its been bombed several times. I thought the Israeli military were supposed to be good at military stuff. Either they are incompetent or people in Gaza are being told on the one hand to go to the crossing and on other it may be bombed again. The Israeli government / military should guarantee first that bombing of it will stop.

Amongst all the other things that appall me about this situation, the fact that there are more than a few British citizens in Gaza at the moment and yet their own government have barely acknowledged that they exist is another one.

As an aside, the BBC have put an article about Yousaf's mother and father in law up, which contains this absolute gem:

Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus, international spokesman of the Israel Defense Forces, said that Gaza "was not a good place to be" for the family and added that as far as he knew it was not possible for them to leave just now.
He told BBC Scotland News: "I think this will be a very long war, our military aim is to strip Hamas of all its military capability."

... and that is for the relatives of the Scottish First Minister; presumably everyone else gets told to sod off

 

[Dystopiary]

agreed never said there are not dodgy characters on the left or people who used the position for their own agenda

Yeah, sorry Ax. I misunderstood you! It's an emotive subject and I need to slow down.

 

[Ax^]

not a problem Dystopiary

it something we all should do atm

 

[Gramsci]

Hodge is utterly vile, always has been. Her family’s financial links to apartheid, the Camden Council child abuse stuff, then after working alongside Corbyn for many years suddenly ‘discovering’ he was anti-Semitic when of course he isn’t. The only good thing to say of her is if she supports something, that means it’s unsupportable. It is an indictment of our political system that she is given any credence at all…..

I was more wondering how prevalent her views are. At one point she said that ( of the Kibbutz she visited) these people have been their seventy years where are they supposed to go.She did not appear to have any awareness that Palestinians were kicked off their land for this. Almost felt like she thought that why cant people just stop going on about Palestinians. Why cant they just go away.

When Owen Jones said the Netanyahu government was far right ( he was correctly distinguishing between the people and the government who make decisions) she winced saying she did not support him BUT Israel had right to defend itself. So she did support his military response but not him. I can understand why some Palestinians can get pissed of with liberal Zionist supporters. If her opinions are representative. Her view was the We must stand by Israel one. Which is fast becoming the only line decent people can take.

 

[tim]

You can tell a lot about someone by how much they’ll deny Iran’s involvement (read: instigation) here.

I assume that there was Iranian involvement in making this attack possible. However, Iran and Israel are both regional powers, and neither has the power to wipe out the other. That doesn't mean that they try and make life difficult for each other, resulting in plenty of death.

 

[two sheds]

agreed never said there are not dodgy characters on the left or people who used the position for their own agenda

just like people on the right

err I don't think they're quite like people on the right, certainly not the far right