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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

This thread has been a reminder of the sometimes stark difference between being Learned and being wise...cheers ( feel free to respond with the usual point scoring drivel you imagine is wit)
 
Ha. If opposing people like Topcat and a few others on this thread is right-wing, I'll get myself signed-up today and wear my blue badge with pride.
If today's media interviews with Tory & Labour politicians are anything to go by, your willingness to justify war crimes against the Palestinians in Gaza does, indeed place you in right-wing company.
 
I'm not sure if this NYT article has been posted before, but it's worth reading.

It's about the complacency, gullibility, optimism bias, assumption of reliance on technology, acceptence of single points of failure, comfort and convenience over operational effectiveness, reliance on civilian phone signal for military communication, and 50 other failures that meant that for between 12 and 24 hours, the Israeli military didn't exist as a cohesive force with the ability to react to anything even on its own doorstep.


Bergman and Kingsley are well connected, and very knowledgeable about this stuff. Their writing can be relied on.
 
I don't think it is so surprising that people are ending up with contradictory positions. The armed resistance has been hijacked by Islamists, and 'Destroy Israel' is never going to produce anything other than further misery. It is hard not to feel despair. But I do think it is important to recognise that Hamas are not the answer to any sensible question. Somehow 'neither Zionist nor Islamist' needs to be the right position for people on all sides to talk to one another. But we are currently moving away from that.
 
I'm not sure if this NYT article has been posted before, but it's worth reading.

It's about the complacency, gullibility, optimism bias, assumption of reliance on technology, acceptence of single points of failure, comfort and convenience over operational effectiveness, reliance on civilian phone signal for military communication, and 50 other failures that meant that for between 12 and 24 hours, the Israeli military didn't exist as a cohesive force with the ability to react to anything even on its own doorstep.


Bergman and Kingsley are well connected, and very knowledgeable about this stuff. Their writing can be relied on.

I was having a look at TNYT reporting earlier. Some of the pictures and videos are not for the faint hearted.

Seems the US press have a different code to here with regards to imagery.
 
If today's media interviews with Tory & Labour politicians are anything to go by, your willingness to justify war crimes against the Palestinians in Gaza does, indeed place you in right-wing company.
That would immediately place Tory and Labour politicians firmly backing Spymaster 's war fighting against the 'psychotic left', TopCat and some others on here. This could become an election issue.
 
That would immediately place Tory and Labour politicians firmly backing Spymaster 's war fighting against the 'psychotic left', TopCat and some others on here. This could become an election issue.
Not sure if that's meant to be a 'light-hearted' post, or not. But anyways...Starmer's inability to call out the Israeli state's denial of basic human needs to an entire civilian population as a war crime is shameful. Not as shameful as Spymaster's justification, but shameful, just the same.
 
Not sure if that's meant to be a 'light-hearted' post, or not. But anyways...Starmer's inability to call out the Israeli state's denial of basic human needs to an entire civilian population as a war crime is shameful. Not as shameful as Spymaster's justification, but shameful, just the same.

What do you expect from Starmer though? Anyone showing an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinian people is likely to be labelled an anti-Semite and pushed from the Labour party. He is a moral coward.
 
Not sure if that's meant to be a 'light-hearted' post, or not. But anyways...Starmer's inability to call out the Israeli state's denial of basic human needs to an entire civilian population as a war crime is shameful. Not as shameful as Spymaster's justification, but shameful, just the same.
I must have missed this. Where did Spymaster justify this war crime?
 
I must have missed this. Where did Spymaster justify this war crime?
It all depends if you use Spymaster’s definition of “justification”. If you apply the same standard of “justify” that he is using to lambast others, it is fair to say that he justified the war crime. (On the other hand, if you use my definition, very few people on this thread have justified anything, including almost all of those that Spymaster has fingered as doing so).
 
This morning there will be terrified children hiding in basements in Gaza trying not to drink their small amount of water. And desperate parents in Tel Aviv desperate trying to find out what’s happened to their children.
All united in delight that what’s happening to them is allowing a small number of superannuated posters, actually , let me change that to men, on a message board to signal their virtue, strut and preen to each other and generally act like cocks.

And I don’t mean the usual alcohol fuelled bitter old men who do it all the time on here. I mean, normally perceptive and reflective people; and so no ambiguity I mean people who have set themselves up on all sides of this debate.

Sometimes I love this place. Sometimes it makes me feel grubby and ashamed.
 
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Not sure if that's meant to be a 'light-hearted' post, or not. But anyways...Starmer's inability to call out the Israeli state's denial of basic human needs to an entire civilian population as a war crime is shameful. Not as shameful as Spymaster's justification, but shameful, just the same.
Can I just reassure you that it was a 'light hearted' post
 
I must have missed this. Where did Spymaster justify this war crime?

He's talking bollocks. He quoted it a bit further up the thread but neglected to quote my subsequent explanation and very clear denunciation of Israel's actions.

It's Broggers and he's got hold of a corner of the carpet. Let him have a tug at it!
 
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If today's media interviews with Tory & Labour politicians are anything to go by, your willingness to justify war crimes against the Palestinians in Gaza does, indeed place you in right-wing company.
He pretty consistently reflects right-wing talking points, so I'm not sure why he'd think of himself as particularly left other than presumably having friendship circles which are further right. I've rarely seen him agreeing with what the left on this board has to say (while frequently and tediously wanking on about how mad people are, which is the main reason I muted him - he's not interesting enough to put up with the bullshit).
 
It all depends if you use Spymaster’s definition of “justification”. If you apply the same standard of “justify” that he is using to lambast others, it is fair to say that he justified the war crime. (On the other hand, if you use my definition, very few people on this thread have justified anything, including almost all of those that Spymaster has fingered as doing so).

The shifting between your definition and mine is rather the point, prof.
 
He pretty consistently reflects right-wing talking points, so I'm not sure why he'd think of himself as particularly left other than presumably having friendship circles which are further right. I've rarely seen him agreeing with what the left on this board has to say (while frequently and tediously wanking on about how mad people are, which is the main reason I muted him - he's not interesting enough to put up with the bullshit).

Holding views to the right of the majority of posters on these boards is not necessarily "right-wing" in the real world!
 
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