Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Gramsci]

Why? Zelensky made his feelings crystal clear.

Yes I know more than once. I was being a bit facetious.

Take this from Zelensky on the passing of the foreign aid package in US for Israel and Ukraine:

Democracy and freedom will always have global significance and will never fail as long as America helps to protect it. The vital US aid bill passed today by the House will keep the war from expanding, save thousands and thousands of lives, and help both of our nations to become stronger. Just peace and security can only be attained through strength,” Zelensky added.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/20/world/foreign-aid-bill-ukraine-israel-thank-you-intl-latam/index.html

More than once he has linked struggle of Israel to struggle of Ukraine.

So yes agree he has made his feelings crystal clear over the time during this recent phase of the conflict in Israel / Palestine has occured.

 

[barlimo]

Interesting:

How Jewish is Volodymyr Zelensky? Ukrainian president's heritage revealed

Looking at Zelenksy’s Jewish upbringing, it's not always clear how observant the Ukraine president is

www.thejc.com

 

[Sue]

Interesting:

How Jewish is Volodymyr Zelensky? Ukrainian president's heritage revealed

Looking at Zelenksy’s Jewish upbringing, it's not always clear how observant the Ukraine president is

www.thejc.com

Why?

 

[Pickman's model]

Interesting:

How Jewish is Volodymyr Zelensky? Ukrainian president's heritage revealed

Looking at Zelenksy’s Jewish upbringing, it's not always clear how observant the Ukraine president is

www.thejc.com

Must say I've been wondering how observant you are

 

[Karl Masks]

This is a form of torture. Actually stopping aid trucks, taking the material, and destroying it. There aren't words to describe this kind of evil. if the UN does not or cannot respond to this then there is no point to this, and if Biden does not or cannot stop fthis then he deserves to lose his job.

No doubt the Tories will make pitiful excuses for this

 

[Karl Masks]

Sow the wind, reap the Tory Whirlwind

 

[Yossarian]

So the 4,959 women and 7,797 children are confirmed, and there are 18,000+ additional reported but not yet identified. Which suggests they estimate 4,500 women and 6,500 children still buried under the rubble or missing rather than the May 6 figures being inflated. This seems so basic an error that I must be making a mistake somewhere?

The UN says the toll of women and children has not been revised downward - I think this was covered by some journalists who don't know how to count and a larger number who do know how to count but pretended they couldn't

UN denies Gaza death toll of women and children has been revised down

Spokesperson says confusion results from Gaza health ministry’s new way of classifying those not yet fully identified

www.theguardian.com

 

[two sheds]

"We've only killed 8,000 children" is actually quite telling, too.

 

[Gramsci]

‘Total outrage’: White House condemns Israeli settlers’ attack on Gaza aid trucks

Protesters block convoy, throw food into road and set fire to vehicles at Tarqumiya checkpoint near Hebron

www.theguardian.com

Outrage isn't good enough. Israel needs to be sanctioned.

Attacking convoy , throwing food onto the road. This can't be happening without the complicity of Israeli state. These right wing hardliners are being allowed to get away with it.

Also HQ for aid delivery has been closed.

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees announced it was closing its East Jerusalem headquarters on Thursday after a fresh attack by what Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the agency, described as “Israeli extremists”.

 

[Karl Masks]

‘Total outrage’: White House condemns Israeli settlers’ attack on Gaza aid trucks

Protesters block convoy, throw food into road and set fire to vehicles at Tarqumiya checkpoint near Hebron

www.theguardian.com

Outrage isn't good enough. Israel needs to be sanctioned.

Attacking convoy , throwing food onto the road. This can't be happening without the complicity of Israeli state. These right wing hardliners are being allowed to get away with it.

Also HQ for aid delivery has been closed.

The point, obviously.

Why wasn't the most moral army on hand to ensure the safe passage of aid convoys? Why would the only democracy in th emiddle east want to stop and loot aid convoys.

I mean, it's just disgusting of course the state is complicit, if only by virtue of not stopping it. They don't hide what they think or intend and never have.

 

[Dystopiary]

Interesting:

How Jewish is Volodymyr Zelensky? Ukrainian president's heritage revealed

Looking at Zelenksy’s Jewish upbringing, it's not always clear how observant the Ukraine president is

www.thejc.com

Why?

barlimo?

 

[Duncan2]

Haven't found it again but saw pictures on Instagram of a UN pickup truck riddled with bullet holes and one aid worker killed somewhere in Gaza.Perhaps not a recent incident ?

 

[Duncan2]

Haven't found it again but saw pictures on Instagram of a UN pickup truck riddled with bullet holes and one aid worker killed somewhere in Gaza.Perhaps not a recent incident ?

 

[Duncan2]

Dp again- zounds (soz)

 

[teqniq]

Haven't found it again but saw pictures on Instagram of a UN pickup truck riddled with bullet holes and one aid worker killed somewhere in Gaza.Perhaps not a recent incident ?

It would have been this from yesterday:

American Medical Missions Trapped in Gaza, Facing Death by Dehydration as Population Clings to Life

Upward of 20 American doctors are trapped in Gaza, some at the European Hospital, due to Israel’s post-invasion closure of the Rafah border crossing.

theintercept.com

 

[teqniq]

Analysis by Ori Goldberg. I follow this guy on Twitter, worth a watch/listen:

Goldberg13-140524

mediaview.aljazeera.com

 

[Gramsci]

Reading the FT today. Reported that Hamas military wing are launching attacks on IDF in north and central Gaza. Areas supposedly cleared of Hamas fighters.

Quotes Antony Blinken , US secretary of State,

"What we are seeing right now is parts of Gaza that Israel has cleared of Hamas, where Hamas is coming back, including in the north."

Five IDF were killed over last weekend in central Gaza.

So IDF counter insurgency isn't working. And Hamas military wing is still capable of attacks on IDF across Gaza

 

[planetgeli]

This is a form of torture. Actually stopping aid trucks, taking the material, and destroying it. There aren't words to describe this kind of evil. if the UN does not or cannot respond to this then there is no point to this, and if Biden does not or cannot stop fthis then he deserves to lose his job.

No doubt the Tories will make pitiful excuses for this

It's a form of fascism to deny essential food and supplies for starving dying people.

And I don't care what religion they are.

 

[Karl Masks]

It would have been this from yesterday:

American Medical Missions Trapped in Gaza, Facing Death by Dehydration as Population Clings to Life

Upward of 20 American doctors are trapped in Gaza, some at the European Hospital, due to Israel’s post-invasion closure of the Rafah border crossing.

theintercept.com

That pathetic fossil Biden could solve this instantly. He won't of course, and he deserves to lose in November. Sadly that means an even more pathetic fossil replaces him.

 

[Dystopiary]

‘Total outrage’: White House condemns Israeli settlers’ attack on Gaza aid trucks

Protesters block convoy, throw food into road and set fire to vehicles at Tarqumiya checkpoint near Hebron

www.theguardian.com

Outrage isn't good enough. Israel needs to be sanctioned.

Attacking convoy , throwing food onto the road. This can't be happening without the complicity of Israeli state. These right wing hardliners are being allowed to get away with it.

Also HQ for aid delivery has been closed.

Not enough "total outrage" for them to stop the supply of arms though eh. Sickening.

 

[teqniq]

More on the situation wrt the European hospital:

 

[teqniq]

If there's one factor that could cost Biden the election i suspect it could well be his unstinting support for Israel. Ironically though it may be difficult to imagine, if the orange turd is in fact elected it could well turn out to be a whole lot worse for the Palestinians:

Biden administration is moving ahead on new $1 billion arms sale to Israel, congressional aides say

It’s the first arms shipment to Israel to be announced by the administration since it put another arms transfer on hold earlier in the month.

apnews.com

 

[agricola]

If there's one factor that could cost Biden the election i suspect it could well be his unstinting support for Israel. Ironically though it may be difficult to imagine, if the orange turd is in fact elected it could well turn out to be a whole lot worse for the Palestinians:

Biden administration is moving ahead on new $1 billion arms sale to Israel, congressional aides say

It’s the first arms shipment to Israel to be announced by the administration since it put another arms transfer on hold earlier in the month.

apnews.com

TBF I don't think its unstinting support for Israel that will lose him the election, its the evident weakness he is displaying that will do that. Netanayhu is openly defying him, and has been since right at the start of this (when the Baptist Hospital massacre destroyed his first attempt at organizing a regional peace) all the way up to going into Rafah.

A strong President would have told the Israeli government that any departure from what the US position was would be punished; he'd have interfered in Israeli politics in the same way that Netanyahu has organized interference in that of the US and made it clear that Netanyahu and his utter failure is the problem (which isn't true obviously but it would allow him to continue being the Zionist he claims to be whilst doing something effective). Instead he's repeatedly had his diplomats and PR folk gingerly march a quarter of the way up the hill only to have them make spectacular climbs back down whenever Netanyahu refuses to allow it.

The comparison with Trump is horrifying, and it would absolutely end in even worse outcomes for all involved, but the orange one would never have gotten into this position of being taken for an absolute ride.

 

[Duncan2]

Did the " Freedom Flotilla" bound for Gaza with supplies back in April ever disembark? Haven't heard much recent mention of it?

 

[agricola]

Did the " Freedom Flotilla" bound for Gaza with supplies back in April ever disembark? Haven't heard much recent mention of it?

I don't think it ever left Istanbul.

 

[Duncan2]

I don't think it ever left Istanbul.

No doubt it wouldn't have arrived off Gaza with cargo and crew intact so perhaps for the best

 

[Protag]

TBF I don't think its unstinting support for Israel that will lose him the election, its the evident weakness he is displaying that will do that. Netanayhu is openly defying him, and has been since right at the start of this (when the Baptist Hospital massacre destroyed his first attempt at organizing a regional peace) all the way up to going into Rafah.

A strong President would have told the Israeli government that any departure from what the US position was would be punished; he'd have interfered in Israeli politics in the same way that Netanyahu has organized interference in that of the US and made it clear that Netanyahu and his utter failure is the problem (which isn't true obviously but it would allow him to continue being the Zionist he claims to be whilst doing something effective). Instead he's repeatedly had his diplomats and PR folk gingerly march a quarter of the way up the hill only to have them make spectacular climbs back down whenever Netanyahu refuses to allow it.

The comparison with Trump is horrifying, and it would absolutely end in even worse outcomes for all involved, but the orange one would never have gotten into this position of being taken for an absolute ride.

Indulging in crystal ball politics is probably not the wisest thing to do, but it's fun anyway.

There are a lot of variables involved. The young tend not to vote as much as the old. Even if a bunch of bourgeois progressives get upset with Dementia Joe it doesn't mean they won't vote for him (because of hatred of the Republic**ts, and the Democrats being their natural home). And Trump is very unpredictable, and an effective troll merchant but I don't know much about his current mental state, which is apparently on the decline.

The opinion polls suggest it will be tight, and that will probably happen again, due to both parties being a bit useless in their own special ways.

 

[Karl Masks]

The comparison with Trump is horrifying, and it would absolutely end in even worse outcomes for all involved, but the orange one would never have gotten into this position of being taken for an absolute ride.

What do you mean? Trump would have just armed them regardless. Or at least as much as Putin will allw

 

[Gramsci]

In practise Biden hasn't been that different to Trump on Israel.

When Biden came to power little changed for Palestinians.

Did Biden decide to push for end to settlement building and push for a genuine two state solution?

No.

He kept the "normalisation" process going. Which in effect meant that Palestinians sidelined in order to bring peaceful co existence with surrounding Arab states.

Basically Biden was quite willing for continuation of gradual annexation of West Bank land/ a toothless PA/ and the Palestinian question to be continue to be ignored.

IMO this without necessarily meaning to helped contribute to Palestinian frustration. Which it appears world leader like Biden thought Israel could keep a lid on.

A big mistake.

 

[two sheds]

Largely symbolic I know but recognition of Jerusalem as capital, but I do get the feeling that Netanyahu could say to Trump 'we want to push out all the Palestinians' and Trump would say go for it.