Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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ska invita
back on the other side
"our life's mission....my life's mission.....the mission of my life...."
life long psychopaths
life long psychopaths
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The problem is Israel won't let independent investigators in.
Al Jazeera had good piece on Inside story programme last night.
What is needed is ICC or forensic team from neutral country to investigate.
Otherwise it's going to be hard to independently verify this.
Politically speaking, I wonder how important verification is. Bodies buried with their hands zip tied behind them, bodies in scrubs, bodies of children. It looks like what it looks like and millions of protesters across the world will see it for what it is.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Israel will just deny everything (while saying that the victims had it coming in the same breath).
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I wonder what the reaction would be if an offer was made from the Palestinian side of a two week truce, all civilian women and elderly / sick hostages released in exchange for more aid and an independent forensic team to visit these sites and conduct a rapid investigation.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Where's that white fiat uno when you need it?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
To Di for, darling.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
More updates here, and it would be perhaps not a surprise to anyone that it was his car that caused the accident:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I will put up the Al Jazeera inside story on this.
Investigations / collecting evidence for war crimes should not be dependent on concessions from either side.
This should not be how legal system works. Or justice. Justice should not be allowed through concessions on either side. International justice system should be independent and separate from warring parties.
In Al Jazeera programme it was pointed out that all this requires is agreement on both sides too let them in and ensure their safety
As with a lot of things that Israel does its so far not allowed that.
To make it happen requires outside international pressure. Telling Israel what to do.
The people on the programme reckoned that on Palestinian/ Hamas side their would not be a problem,
One of the civil workers digging up bodies said because so much has been destroyed they do not have the forensic equipment to record things properly.
Also both sides in this are going to emphasis / make allegations. There is going to be understandable exaggeration. Which could undermine in long term any case against Israel
One person on programme pointed out that the ICC had plenty to work on re Israel. Building settlements and moving in Jewish people to West Bank is a war crime as its occupied territory. ( Something it appears present day Israel disputes). Plenty of evidence to work on.
The problem being the political will to get bodies like ICC to get on with it over the years.
Far from Israel being picked on in fact over years its been given a lot of support from states like UK and USA. Which have shielded it.
I'm all for Israel as a state being pursued for war crimes. But it needs careful and diligent work by experts. Supported by UN and international states.
In programme was said way Israel state deals with this is by:
Saying it will conduct investigations.
Then a few individuals are blamed for going to far.
What should be in the dock is not individuals or even important people like Netanyahu but the political project of Zionism
Ethnic cleansing has taken place with different individuals in power. David Ben Gurion now Netanyahu.
The over all problem is Zionism.
Hopefully a broader investigation will look at the structures that led to the bombing and destruction of Gaza.
This was really good programme. Going behind the main news to look at some of the deeper issues.
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Who are you referring to as "life long psychopaths "?
ska invita
back on the other side
That was a quote from Netanyahu on the eve of this bout of ethnic cleansing.... They've literally fantasised over this moment of burying Palestinians alive for decades
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Strange world. You've still not been banned.
teqniq
DisMembered
This is a little strange I only looked for a source because someone on Twitter posted as 'Breaking' today with irritatingly no link to a source and found a number of publications has reported on it April 18th, 9 days ago:
Netanyahu’s office hosts emergency talks on feared ICC warrants for PM, ministers
Dunno why I missed it before, but in any case it seems to have gone all quiet on that front since. I hope the ICC have not been successfully leaned on.
Netanyahu’s office hosts emergency talks on feared ICC warrants for PM, ministers
Dunno why I missed it before, but in any case it seems to have gone all quiet on that front since. I hope the ICC have not been successfully leaned on.
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tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
A short interview with Moran Yanai one of the hostages from October 7 talking about the abuse she suffered whilst in captivity.
And a link to her Instagram page.
www.instagram.com
'I thought just kill me quickly': Gaza hostage's 54 days in captivity
Moran Yanai was threatened with death and moved from place to place during her ordeal.
www.bbc.co.uk
And a link to her Instagram page.
Moran Stela Yanai (@moran_stela_yanai) • Instagram photos and videos
2,200 Followers, 189 Following, 267 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Moran Stela Yanai (@moran_stela_yanai)
www.instagram.com
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Bernie Sanders to Netanyahu: 'It Is Not Antisemitic to Hold You Accountable' | Common Dreams
"Please, do not insult the intelligence of the American people by attempting to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies of your extremist and racist government," said the Vermont senator to Israel's prime minister.
www.commondreams.org
a fine point
barlimo
Well-Known Member
It seems constructive dialogue is beyond you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
By no means. But there is no constructive dialogue to be had with you. It's been tried.
teqniq
DisMembered
teqniq
DisMembered
This Haaretz article is actually 3 pieces of analysis in 1 piece. There's more confirmation of a possible deal but it is not very optimistic. The piece also gives more information on the potential issuance of ICC warrants and finishes off with there being the possibility of an independent inquiry into the Israeli government's failures that led to October 7th:
Hopes Are High for a Hamas Hostage Deal, but We've Seen This Before
Hopes Are High for a Hamas Hostage Deal, but We've Seen This Before
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Good interview here
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
We're a democracy. Therefore we're telling the truth.
And remember the Holocaust.
That's all they have.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's more or less in line with the claims they've been making all along. Either the Gaza health authority is lying and in reality far more people have been killed, or every single adult male the Israelis have killed, along with some of the adult females and maybe a few of the kids, has been Hamas. Pretty lucky strikes given the indiscriminate nature of the attacks.
I thought the interviewer did well to point out that the Gazan health authority isn't pulling numbers out of its arse, that it is scrupulously identifying the victims. The spokesman had no answer. This is the number the army has given us and we're a democracy. That's all he had.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Noticed this:
International Criminal Court is thinking of sending out arrest warrants on Israeli individuals related to attack on Gaza.
Article says , unlike Putin, the ICC is coming under intense pressure from US and other Western governments not to do this at this time.
As the ICC has been less and diligent in pursuing Israel over issues like settlement building on occupied land ICC may cave in.
However on the international stage it may lose credibility. As non Western countries and their people see a double standard here. Correctly imo.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF I disagree there, I think the ICC have probably got to this stage (of threatening indictments) with at least the tolerance of the US and other Western governments for this sort of thing to be talked about.
Public and private entreaties to Netanyahu et al to behave "reasonably" have all failed, off-ramps have not been taken and so now more coercive measures against him are being talked about. As you say they've ignored settlements for so long, and ignored the many shameful killings down the years of Palestinians and others so why they'd get involved now (and before the main ICJ ruling) doesn't really make sense unless someone has given them the green light.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
David Mencer.
I notice under pressure from the interviewer he conflates being Jewish with being Israeli.
" We the Jewish people recognise evil when we see it."
David Mencer is now an Israeli not the head of Labour Friends of Israel in this country.
If he had said we the Israeli people I would have thought well fair enough that is his opinion as now an Israeli.
It was not picked up by interviewer ( who was very good). But its this subtle conflation with being Israeli and being Jewish that people like him make that is so wrong.
BTW I thought Mencer had been sacked by Israeli government
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