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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

According to this report the mass graves at the Nasser hospital is now 700. Some people were buried alive, others with missing organs. Israel need to be held accountable for this and all the other atrocities that have been committed::



The problem is Israel won't let independent investigators in.

Al Jazeera had good piece on Inside story programme last night.

What is needed is ICC or forensic team from neutral country to investigate.

Otherwise it's going to be hard to independently verify this.
 
Politically speaking, I wonder how important verification is. Bodies buried with their hands zip tied behind them, bodies in scrubs, bodies of children. It looks like what it looks like and millions of protesters across the world will see it for what it is.
Israel will just deny everything (while saying that the victims had it coming in the same breath).
 
The problem is Israel won't let independent investigators in.

Al Jazeera had good piece on Inside story programme last night.

What is needed is ICC or forensic team from neutral country to investigate.

Otherwise it's going to be hard to independently verify this.

I wonder what the reaction would be if an offer was made from the Palestinian side of a two week truce, all civilian women and elderly / sick hostages released in exchange for more aid and an independent forensic team to visit these sites and conduct a rapid investigation.
 
I wonder what the reaction would be if an offer was made from the Palestinian side of a two week truce, all civilian women and elderly / sick hostages released in exchange for more aid and an independent forensic team to visit these sites and conduct a rapid investigation.


I will put up the Al Jazeera inside story on this.

Investigations / collecting evidence for war crimes should not be dependent on concessions from either side.

This should not be how legal system works. Or justice. Justice should not be allowed through concessions on either side. International justice system should be independent and separate from warring parties.

In Al Jazeera programme it was pointed out that all this requires is agreement on both sides too let them in and ensure their safety

As with a lot of things that Israel does its so far not allowed that.

To make it happen requires outside international pressure. Telling Israel what to do.

The people on the programme reckoned that on Palestinian/ Hamas side their would not be a problem,

One of the civil workers digging up bodies said because so much has been destroyed they do not have the forensic equipment to record things properly.

Also both sides in this are going to emphasis / make allegations. There is going to be understandable exaggeration. Which could undermine in long term any case against Israel

One person on programme pointed out that the ICC had plenty to work on re Israel. Building settlements and moving in Jewish people to West Bank is a war crime as its occupied territory. ( Something it appears present day Israel disputes). Plenty of evidence to work on.

The problem being the political will to get bodies like ICC to get on with it over the years.

Far from Israel being picked on in fact over years its been given a lot of support from states like UK and USA. Which have shielded it.

I'm all for Israel as a state being pursued for war crimes. But it needs careful and diligent work by experts. Supported by UN and international states.

In programme was said way Israel state deals with this is by:

Saying it will conduct investigations.

Then a few individuals are blamed for going to far.

What should be in the dock is not individuals or even important people like Netanyahu but the political project of Zionism

Ethnic cleansing has taken place with different individuals in power. David Ben Gurion now Netanyahu.

The over all problem is Zionism.

Hopefully a broader investigation will look at the structures that led to the bombing and destruction of Gaza.

This was really good programme. Going behind the main news to look at some of the deeper issues.

 
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Strange world: The US military is building a large floating pier off Gaza's coast to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid whilst at the same time it's still supplying the Israelis with bombs and shells which no doubt can be used on Gaza.
 
This is a little strange I only looked for a source because someone on Twitter posted as 'Breaking' today with irritatingly no link to a source and found a number of publications has reported on it April 18th, 9 days ago:

Netanyahu’s office hosts emergency talks on feared ICC warrants for PM, ministers

Dunno why I missed it before, but in any case it seems to have gone all quiet on that front since. I hope the ICC have not been successfully leaned on.
 
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A short interview with Moran Yanai one of the hostages from October 7 talking about the abuse she suffered whilst in captivity.


And a link to her Instagram page.

 
This Haaretz article is actually 3 pieces of analysis in 1 piece. There's more confirmation of a possible deal but it is not very optimistic. The piece also gives more information on the potential issuance of ICC warrants and finishes off with there being the possibility of an independent inquiry into the Israeli government's failures that led to October 7th:

Hopes Are High for a Hamas Hostage Deal, but We've Seen This Before
 
Surprised he didn't subtract 13,000 alleged Hamas fighters from the 33,000 odd total deaths and ask how targeted the strikes are if 20,000 civilians have died. With around 1,000 that Hamas killed that's a 20:1 ratio.
It's more or less in line with the claims they've been making all along. Either the Gaza health authority is lying and in reality far more people have been killed, or every single adult male the Israelis have killed, along with some of the adult females and maybe a few of the kids, has been Hamas. Pretty lucky strikes given the indiscriminate nature of the attacks.

I thought the interviewer did well to point out that the Gazan health authority isn't pulling numbers out of its arse, that it is scrupulously identifying the victims. The spokesman had no answer. This is the number the army has given us and we're a democracy. That's all he had.
 
This Haaretz article is actually 3 pieces of analysis in 1 piece. There's more confirmation of a possible deal but it is not very optimistic. The piece also gives more information on the potential issuance of ICC warrants and finishes off with there being the possibility of an independent inquiry into the Israeli government's failures that led to October 7th:

Hopes Are High for a Hamas Hostage Deal, but We've Seen This Before

Noticed this:

Issuing arrest warrants would ostensibly require the more than 120 ICC member states to arrest Israeli officials on their territory and extradite them to the court. A similar move was taken against Russian President Vladimir Putin over the war in Ukraine. The allegations against Israel on the basis of which warrants are being considered relate to suspicions of war crimes, but not to claims of genocide. This is a separate procedure, directed at states and not individuals, and it could take years

International Criminal Court is thinking of sending out arrest warrants on Israeli individuals related to attack on Gaza.

Article says , unlike Putin, the ICC is coming under intense pressure from US and other Western governments not to do this at this time.

As the ICC has been less and diligent in pursuing Israel over issues like settlement building on occupied land ICC may cave in.

However on the international stage it may lose credibility. As non Western countries and their people see a double standard here. Correctly imo.
 
Noticed this:



International Criminal Court is thinking of sending out arrest warrants on Israeli individuals related to attack on Gaza.

Article says , unlike Putin, the ICC is coming under intense pressure from US and other Western governments not to do this at this time.

As the ICC has been less and diligent in pursuing Israel over issues like settlement building on occupied land ICC may cave in.

However on the international stage it may lose credibility. As non Western countries and their people see a double standard here. Correctly imo.

TBF I disagree there, I think the ICC have probably got to this stage (of threatening indictments) with at least the tolerance of the US and other Western governments for this sort of thing to be talked about.

Public and private entreaties to Netanyahu et al to behave "reasonably" have all failed, off-ramps have not been taken and so now more coercive measures against him are being talked about. As you say they've ignored settlements for so long, and ignored the many shameful killings down the years of Palestinians and others so why they'd get involved now (and before the main ICJ ruling) doesn't really make sense unless someone has given them the green light.
 
Good interview here



David Mencer.

I notice under pressure from the interviewer he conflates being Jewish with being Israeli.

" We the Jewish people recognise evil when we see it."

David Mencer is now an Israeli not the head of Labour Friends of Israel in this country.

If he had said we the Israeli people I would have thought well fair enough that is his opinion as now an Israeli.

It was not picked up by interviewer ( who was very good). But its this subtle conflation with being Israeli and being Jewish that people like him make that is so wrong.

BTW I thought Mencer had been sacked by Israeli government
 
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