Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Unless this involved the mother of all carpettings - which would go against everything we know about the US/Israel relationship - I very much doubt if this will amount to anything real.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
Bingoman
Well-Known Member
If Iran joined then all bets are off?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
One view is that Biden's visit is precisely because Blinken didn't make adequate progress.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
This is going to be the war where no one agrees on even a basic version of the facts. I can't be arsed to find it now, but there was someone filmed at a demo claiming that all the anti-Hamas claims were false. You see the problem. That's going to circulate in the global lumpen-left for a long time to come. And even photographic evidence of the kind you describe won't be accepted by same.
And on the other side, unless all 2.4 million Gazans are killed (and maybe not even then) you'll have people say "that doesn't count as genocide, and anyway, they deserved it."
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Guerilla armies the world over get accused of 'hiding among the population' or 'using their own people as human shields'. Hamas are in effect a guerilla army. They don't have the resources or infrastructure to set up proper army camps and whatnot. If they did they would be destroyed immediately by the state they are opposing. You don't have to agree with anything they say or do to recognise the reality on the ground. All guerilla armies hide among the people, because that is where they come from, whether they are nice or nasty, representative of majority opinion or not. Israel has army bases etc because it has a massive army, air defences, a sizeable airforce, navy etc etc. It is the imbalance of power which necessitates where guerillas place their own combatants.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
What would progress look like?
not-bono-ever
meh
The Iran regime want to survive above all. I can’t see them doing anything apart from the back door wheedling and manipulation fir the time being
Bingoman
Well-Known Member
If Iran joins in then bigger war will take place
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
In my opinion acceptable progress for the USA would be them trying to repair their reputation/ image/ influence with key Middle Eastern states whilst maintaining their relationship with Israel . I read that Russia was to hold conversations with key players in the region so perhaps they have one eye on that ?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I hope this ages well. Like, longer than this afternoon will do for a start.
As for Hamas burning people - is anyone standing up for this here? Who is cheering on Hamas? I can think of one poster early on (Dwyer doesn't count).
Hamas are bad, bad people with a fundamentalist approach nobody with decent politics can support. Is that enough for everyone?
And in the meantime, a quote from revolutionary socialist Olaf Scholz
In our horror at the inhuman violence of the Hamas perpetrators of violence, it is important to differentiate. The Palestinians are not Hamas and Hamas has no right to speak for them. The Palestinian people of Gaza are also victims of Hamas."
Olaf Scholz German chancellor
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Olaf is a cunt. Not a revolutionary socialist.
Hamas were elected so can make a decent claim to represent those who voted for them.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Whoosh
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Following that line of argument mean lead some to say that the some of the people of Gaza are in some way responsible for Hamas's attack then.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Eine gute witz, ja!
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Hardly. No more than labour voters were responsible for war crimes in Iraq.
It is a fact that Hamas won the 2006 elections, overwhelmingly in Gaza, and were stopped from being able to take office. Which didn't do anything to help 'the situation.' They do have wide support throughout Palestine, due to the failures and corruption of the PLO.
Of course, in the same way that Suella Braverman represents you.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
No because I have never voted Tory.
So you’re saying what, that the bombers can distinguish those who voted Hamas from those who didn’t?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
No, I don't at all of course, but people claiming Hamas are 'legitimate' as they were voted in some way does lead down that path for some, and it's not without some level of truth to it, the complicating factors are what that might mean in the reality of the situation, if anything.
Again, probably something some elements of the Israeli State and Hamas both agree on, in that Hamas represents a huge body of Palestinians.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is very explicitly the path the Israeli president (who is from the Labour Party) has gone down. There is no more truth to it than the idea that the Israeli ravers deserved to die because they were Israeli. And given the extreme asymmetry of power involved, it is an idea that leads inexorably to genocide.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I am not saying that. You would have noticed the words I did use. Try those.
I’ve got to admit that I’m at a loss as to what point you’re making by saying that Hamas represents Palestinians.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
That’s fine. You have problems I would assert because of an inability to read words and ascertain what they mean. You read between the lines, you extrapolate, you consider what the writer really means and lose sight of what they actually wrote.
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