Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[platinumsage]

You don't accept Aunties reasons for not calling them terrorists?

I read John Simpson's piece about it and it was disingenuous because they frequently use the terrorist descriptor, for example for the 7/7 London bombers.

However my point by linking to that thread was to highlight that Russia is clearly positioning itself as a champion of Palestinian rights to garner popular support from a variety of countries.

 

[Knotted]

When Netanyahu goes, the replacement will likely be worse visa vie the Palestinians and Gaza in particular.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not convinced Biden would be that devastated if Netanyahu fell under the bus that Biden will might be driving...

He'll likely share obama's view of bn

 

[The39thStep]

Is this the same USA on its white horse that Saudis made wait for a day and Egypt lectured?

Dissed by Saudi Arabia, lectured by Egypt: U.S. diplomacy meets Mideast reality

Secretary of State Antony Blinken says no one wants the Israeli-Hamas conflict to grow, but Arab leaders won’t take sides.

www.politico.com

 

[Ax^]

If Iran join the fray how would that look in practice?

would be Hezbollah more than Iran army
so still a proxy war

think this is more of a get America attention than the start of world war 3

 

[Karl Masks]

I read John Simpson's piece about it and it was disingenuous because they frequently use the terrorist descriptor, for example for the 7/7 London bombers.

was that recently or at the time?

If the bbc are consistent in this then I have no problem. The real issue is that it's being used to cassue them of being pro Hamas

However my point by linking to that thread was to highlight that Russia is clearly positioning itself as a champion of Palestinian rights to garner popular support from a variety of countries.

I doubt Putin really cares about anyone not called Putin, let alone arabs

 

[MickiQ]

I really hope Labour fuck up their chances at the next General election. They do not deserve to win. I could see there being a very low turn out at least.

The impact that this will have on the outcome of the next GE is zero or so close to zero as to make no difference. The fact that this is dominating the current news cycle has pushed all the issues why people might vote Labour at the next Election such as the cost of living, high mortgage/rents, the failure of Brexit not to the mention the sheer incompetence of the current administration off the news but those issues haven't gone away. I'm willing to bet that the cancellation of HS2 will change more votes than disagreement with Starmer's stance on Palestine.

 

[A380]

View attachment 395824

Wallace Shawn joined protesters outside the White House on Monday

"I don’t really believe in revenge, and that’s what this is. Personally, I don’t really believe in massacring any innocent people,” he told the D.C. crowd ... “Obviously, like anyone who is Jewish, millions of my relatives have been massacred. You would think that would teach everybody from that background that this is a tragedy that should be avoided and hatred against particular groups is wrong. Many people don’t seem to have picked that up.”

Wallace Shawn Calls for End of “Massacring” in Israel-Gaza Conflict at D.C. Rally: “I Don’t Really Believe in Revenge”

The 'Toy Story' and 'The Princess Bride' actor said Israel's retaliatory response following Hamas' terrorist attack is "one of the most deliberate cruelties inflicted on a group of people that I can remember and that my own government has supported."

www.hollywoodreporter.com

You'd think he'd know not to get involved in a land war in Asia...

 

[dilute micro]

Is this the same USA on its white horse that Saudis made wait for a day and Egypt lectured?

Dissed by Saudi Arabia, lectured by Egypt: U.S. diplomacy meets Mideast reality

Secretary of State Antony Blinken says no one wants the Israeli-Hamas conflict to grow, but Arab leaders won’t take sides.

www.politico.com

Afghanistan did damage. They're certainly not the best team but appear to have improved.

 

[MickiQ]

I'm not convinced Biden would be that devastated if Netanyahu fell under the bus that Biden will might be driving...

He could probably get Trump to drive it, he's still mardy about Netanyahu not agreeing the 2020 election was stolen.

 

[ska invita]

I'm not convinced Biden would be that devastated if Netanyahu fell under the bus that Biden will might be driving...

I'm sure that's the case, my point is it could well be wishful thinking, tanks on the lawn, "lessons in power" or not. Israel is under control of psychopaths whose lifes work is to ethnically cleanse the land within the borders of Israel.

 

[A380]

I'd probably not sell the Qatar based leadership of Hamas life insurance...

 

[Knotted]

Last night, Friday, I huddled with my family in the safest room of the house and prayed: if we are to die, may we die softly and not suffer any pain. The other night, our neighbors suffered for hours in the dark — not because of the power outage, but because an Israeli air raid, with no prior warning, bombed their three-story home. It collapsed on top of them, trapping them underneath the rubble. No civilian crew was able to help. One ambulance approached the scene and was bombed. We heard our neighbors screaming for help. And then, silence.

I'm still in Gaza City, huddling in the safest room with my family, praying

Because I'm a journalist, my family thinks I'm more immune to the violence around us in Gaza. But I'm as terrified as they are.

www.972mag.com

 

[dilute micro]

If Iran join the fray how would that look in practice?

For Iran, it would look a lot like 1988.

 

[The39thStep]

The impact that this will have on the outcome of the next GE is zero or so close to zero as to make no difference. The fact that this is dominating the current news cycle has pushed all the issues why people might vote Labour at the next Election such as the cost of living, high mortgage/rents, the failure of Brexit not to the mention the sheer incompetence of the current administration off the news but those issues haven't gone away. I'm willing to bet that the cancellation of HS2 will change more votes than disagreement with Starmer's stance on Palestine.

I'm not a gambling man however by what evidence would your offer of a wager be settled?

 

[TopCat]

For Iran, it would look a lot like 1988.

Can you expand a bit for clarity?

 

[TopCat]

My recollections of 1988 for Iran was mass state executions of socialists, communists, general enemies of the state.

 

[JimW]

He could probably get Trump to drive it, he's still mardy about Netanyahu not agreeing the 2020 election was stolen.

A man who rises above the petty and personal to consider the broader international picture

 

[cupid_stunt]

I read John Simpson's piece about it and it was disingenuous because they frequently use the terrorist descriptor, for example for the 7/7 London bombers.

You can't seriously compare what's happening in this conflict, with all the history and baggage behind it, to what happened on 7/7 in London, that's bonkers.

 

[phildwyer]

Yes I don't think the Americans could tolerate a full on genocide with their network of alliances with various Arab states including especially Saudi Arabia. I wasn't sure if they could rein the Israelis in. I don't think Biden+Blinken were sure either.

I'm still not sure. The President of Israel says there are no civilians in Gaza:

Israeli President Says There Are No Innocent Civilians In Gaza - Jordan News | Latest News from Jordan, MENA

Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,400 people dead.

www.jordannews.jo

 

[dilute micro]

Can you expand a bit for clarity?

If Iran joins in, they're going to pay a huge price, probably more than they want. The US would focus on Iran. In 88 Iran lost nearly their entire navy. This would extend far beyond that. Iran would lose military assets and infrastructure in a serious way, not tit for tat. Israel would probably not be held back by the US this time. The US has been very cool on the Iran/Gulf side of the region, choosing to build up in the Mediterranean and ignoring Iran. That could change in a matter of a week with the addition of a third carrier. If Iran wants in, they'd be facing 2 carrier groups dedicated to Iran. They'd get pounded, not just Lebanon, assuming Hezbollah entered into it.

 

[phildwyer]

I don't see Israel being emotionally able to live alongside the current Hamas set-up.

International politics can't be guided by emotion.

 

[phildwyer]

Tactical nukes I guess.

To begin with.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

By no means - explore and experiment

And then get fucked…

 

[phildwyer]

He could probably get Trump to drive it, he's still mardy about Netanyahu not agreeing the 2020 election was stolen.

That was hilarious.

Trump did absolutely everything Netanyahu demanded--murdered Sulemani, moved the capital to Jerusalem, broke the treaty with Iran. No doubt he'd cooked up one of his famous "deals" and was expecting considerable help in return. Then as soon as he was out of power, Netanyahu just stiffed him. Told him to fuck off (in so many words apparently). Trump the conman met his match.

 

[platinumsage]

You can't seriously compare what's happening in this conflict, with all the history and baggage behind it, to what happened on 7/7 in London, that's bonkers.

I'm not, am I? I simply said that a particular article misrepresented the BBC's position.

 

[brogdale]

FWIW, the UN are edging towards calling out the Israeli state's war crimes/crimes against humanity.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm not, am I? I simply said that a particular article misrepresented the BBC's position.

But, it doesn't, unless you have a better example to prove your point,

 

[belboid]

I'm not, am I? I simply said that a particular article misrepresented the BBC's position.

did it? I don't think so. The BBC don't use the word terrorist themselves, altho they will frequently quote other people using it. Hence you are misremembering. 7/7 is described as 'the London bombings'

 

[The39thStep]

If Iran joins in, they're going to pay a huge price, probably more than they want. The US would focus on Iran. In 88 Iran lost nearly their entire navy. This would extend far beyond that. Iran would lose military assets and infrastructure in a serious way, not tit for tat. Israel would probably not be held back by the US this time. The US has been very cool on the Iran/Gulf side of the region, choosing to build up in the Mediterranean and ignoring Iran. That could change in a matter of a week with the addition of a third carrier. If Iran wants in, they'd be facing 2 carrier groups dedicated to Iran. They'd get pounded, not just Lebanon, assuming Hezbollah entered into it.

Don'y you love it when the big boys flex their muscles