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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

phildwyer said:
I found absolutely nothing about it in the British or American press, which is obviously deliberate policy.
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"Deliberate policy", or not of interest to most people? Religious nutters spark trouble at controversial holy site isn't a huge scoop tbh.

I also suspect there's a huge (and racist) kind of anti-islamism that exists in most 'western' (=white, libral, judeo-christian) cultures, that needs zionism in a 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' type of way and sees Israel as a bastion of aforementioned white, liberal judeo-christian-ness in a sea of brown muslimness there in the middle east. I suspect these kinds of 'I stand with Israel' types would chuck Jews under buses both metaphorical and real, in another context. There's a pro-zionism of convenience I think you're overlooking in your conspiracist errr 'analysis'.

So there's that.
 
tim said:
Mass slaughter of civilians is something that states have always done and it is what we expect them to do. The ability and willingness to kill and steal is the foundation of state power. Gaza is also a cohesive and oppressive state with a powerful ruling class many of whom live safely in Qatar, far from the missiles.
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As I say, you can't equate the violence of the oppressor with the violence of the oppressed. Quite apart from moral considerations, the oppressor is a lot better at violence. I think Israel is about to commit the mother of all massacres.
 
mojo pixy said:
"Deliberate policy", or not of interest to most people? Religious nutters spark trouble at controversial holy site isn't a huge scoop tbh.
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It is a huge story, because the desecration of al-Asqa is the reason Hamas gave for their operation. That's a rather important fact, wouldn't you say? And yet it has deliberately been concealed from the Anglophone public.
 
phildwyer said:
It is a huge story, because the desecration of al-Asqa is the reason Hamas gave for their operation. That's a rather important fact, wouldn't you say? And yet it has deliberately been concealed from the Anglophone public.
Click to expand...

While I’ll grant that I don’t get all my news from sources we’d agree to call “UK mainstream media”, I’d want to see some kind of (perhaps survey-based?) evidence before concluding it has been concealed at all effectively.
 
Humberto said:
It was but it's hardly news in Britain to be a big story. Jeremy Bowen talked about it. And the attack was planned ages in advance. Phil chatting bollocks. Again.
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Got any links? This is the third time someone's claimed to have seen it.

Anyway, using money to enforce opinion:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Billionaires drop Ivy League funding over failure to condemn Hamas

Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania have been hit hardest by the backlash - with a host of alumni calling on the colleges to do better as some revoke their funding.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
phildwyer said:
Got any links? This is the third time someone's claimed to have seen it.

Anyway, using money to enforce opinion:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Billionaires drop Ivy League funding over failure to condemn Hamas

Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania have been hit hardest by the backlash - with a host of alumni calling on the colleges to do better as some revoke their funding.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...

www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas blindsides Israel with most serious attack in a generation - Jeremy Bowen

Risk of flare-up between Palestinian militants and Israel has been deepening for months, writes Jeremy Bowen.
www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas has said it acted because of threats to Jerusalem's mosques. During the last week, some Jews have prayed inside the Aqsa Mosque compound, the third holiest place for Muslims after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.
The same precinct is also venerated by Jews, as it was the site of the biblical Jewish temple. Prayer by religious Jews on what they call the Temple Mount might not sound like much, but it is prohibited by Israel as Palestinians consider it highly provocative.
Even so, by the standards of Jerusalem, always a tinderbox of national and religious conflict, it was not exceptionally tense.
The complexity of the Hamas operation shows that it had been planned over months. It was not a hasty response to events in Jerusalem in the last week or so.
The reasons why Hamas and Israel are once again at war run much deeper. The conflict between Israelis and Palestinians has been heating up even when it is far from the headlines of international news organisations.
Even so, it has been largely ignored by countries that still officially call for peace via a two-state solution, shorthand for an independent Palestine alongside Israel. For a while, during the Oslo peace process of the 1990s, the prospect of two states was a real hope. Now it is an empty slogan.
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Humberto said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas blindsides Israel with most serious attack in a generation - Jeremy Bowen

Risk of flare-up between Palestinian militants and Israel has been deepening for months, writes Jeremy Bowen.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

But "some Jews have prayed inside al-Aqsa mosque" is a misleading way of describing what happened. More than 800 Israeli nutters stormed the place, blowing goat's horns and performing religious rituals--in other words, desecrating the third holiest site in Islam, of which Hamas see themselves as the responsible guardians. According to Hamas, they even attempted to destroy it by flooding the basement. They want to tear it down and rebuild their temple on the site.

Of course the Hamas operation was planned in advance, but this was the immediate cause. It's the reason Hamas gave for staging their operation. And they even named the operation after the incident, because they wanted to leave no doubt about the message they were sending.

We should have been told all of this by any responsible media. Instead we were told virtually none of it. We should now be asking why we were kept in the dark.
 
phildwyer said:
But "some Jews have prayed inside al-Aqsa mosque" is a misleading way of describing what happened. More than 800 Israeli nutters stormed the place, blowing goat's horns and performing religious rituals--in other words, desecrating the third holiest site in Islam, of which Hamas see themselves as the responsible guardians. According to Hamas, they even attempted to destroy it by flooding the basement. They want to tear it down and rebuild their temple on the site.

Of course the Hamas operation was planned in advance, but this was the immediate cause. It's the reason Hamas gave for staging their operation. And they even named the operation after the incident, because they wanted to leave no doubt about the message they were sending.

We should have been told all of this by any responsible media. Instead we were told virtually none of it. We should now be asking why we were kept in the dark.
Click to expand...

Refresh me with some links since you asked me.
 
Humberto said:
Refresh me with some links since you asked me.
Click to expand...

www.newarab.com

Over 800 Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa compound on Sukkot

Rabbis, heads of settlement associations and far-right university lecturers were among 832 people who stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound on Thursday morning.
www.newarab.com www.newarab.com

www.aljazeera.com

Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque complex on fifth day of Sukkot

Israeli settlers storm complex in groups and attempt to perform ‘Talmudic rituals’, according to a Waqf official.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
Humberto said:
Both Qatar?
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Seems unlikely that they made it up. It's happened before, though not to the same extent. And those photos don't look staged to me.

Anyway, Hamas certainly believe it. That's why they named their operation "al-Aqsa Flood." That's important, if we want to understand what's going on. But no-one tells us this, and I'd like to know why not.
 
phildwyer said:
Seems unlikely that they made it up. It's happened before, though not to the same extent. And those photos don't look staged to me.

Anyway, Hamas certainly believe it. That's why they named their operation "al-Aqsa Flood." But no-one tells us this, and I'd like to know why not.
Click to expand...

How unlikely?
 
phildwyer said:
Pretty unlikely. It's consistent with precedent. But anyway, the point is that Hamas believe it, and cite it as the reason why the invaded Israel. We should be told such things by our press. But we are not.
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We were. I showed you where and explained it's not newsworthy here and it has had scarce coverage elsewhere.

I don't mind criticism of 'western MSM'. I do mind people whose record is 'Biden can't form a sentence', refusing to accept a point that he is clearly wrong on and barreling on anyway into 'Tucker Carlson is left wing' and that it's anything but a geopolitical maneuver planned way in advance and with consequences generations will have to live with.
 
Humberto said:
We were. I showed you where and explained it's not newsworthy here and it has had scarce coverage elsewhere.

I don't mind criticism of 'western MSM'. I do mind people whose record is 'Biden can't form a sentence', refusing to accept a point that he is clearly wrong on and barreling on anyway into 'Tucker Carlson is left wing' and that it's anything but a geopolitical maneuver planned way in advance and with consequences generations will have to live with.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate you've lost me now. Have another go if you like. Maybe in the morning.
 
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