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Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

Rutita1 said:
Why are you telling me? Call the mirror and tell them? Why not leave your extremely important comment in the comments section on that page?
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im saying it because there's a conspiracy theory that the figure is being deliberately suppressed, and that headline gives the impression Newsnight are cancelling interviews as part of that conspiracy - I dont think thats the case in that situation
 
cupid_stunt said:
WTF?

Council leader claims sprinklers were not fitted as residents did not want the disruption

I find that hard to believe, considering the concerns raised by residents over the years.

Also from that article: British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association has put the cost of installing a sprinkler system at £200,000.
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A local Councillor on BBC live right now (that was present at all consultation meetings) just mentioned she remembered no mention of sprinklers, and has called this as an outright lie and for Paget-Brown to retract the statement.
 
Kaka Tim said:
ive never know a disaster where the death count has been restricted only to those who have been officially identified - the media always goes with "x number of people feared dead". The estimates seem to be coming from emergency service workers - so pretty credible. Also it may well be that many of the dead are not reported as missing - whole families may have been killed and there were probably a lot of people living there unofficially. This smacks of the sort of stuff they do in authoritarian regimes - and its only likely to fuel the anger.
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Yeah I would have thought they'd be able to get a rough figure by working out how many missing person reports are duplicates, and counting unidentified people in hospitals - but that the final figure may well be higher (because of people with no-one to report them, including lodgers and others living there unofficially (for example my housing association told me I don't have to tell them if I have a partner, family member, or lodger move in, so long as I don't over-occupy or operate a business (ie airb&b) - I don't know if thats the case in social housing generally - and there'll always be people staying with friends and family temporarily, not to mention subletting and airb&b going on either without the housing management's knowledge or in privately owned flats - and more of this going on because of the government's appalling housing policies).

But it seems odd that some sort of estimate isn't being given.
 
Kaka Tim said:
the government's response is fucking awful. Its clear there have been major failings in the management and that residents were ignored - yet their response does not reflect this at all. All we are getting is bland words and a blank refusal to talk to the people affected. May is acting as if its some freak weather event thats killed three people in the outer Hebrides. There is no immediate action, no announcement of an immediate and urgent review of fire safety in tower blocs, no solid commitments to the victims, nothing - just blandishments. They really are callous cunts - all they are doing is trying to keep a lid on it and save their own sorry skins. Listen to fucking ledsome here - vile robot -
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Endless robotic platitudes and fuck all substance. Much like listening to May. Fair play to the fella who articulately and passionately let her know the score. Well done son.
 
J Ed said:
PR people for the Royals realise what a mess the Tories are making of this and do not want to be caught wrong footed and associated with it.
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I don't much like the Royals but Lizzie is remarkably popular and liable to go down better than Lady May with the injured at the hospitals.

They are also fairly experienced at handling this sort of thing, and tend not be seen as directly responsible unlike say the government or council.
 
crossthebreeze said:
Yeah I would have thought they'd be able to get a rough figure by working out how many missing person reports are duplicates, and counting unidentified people in hospitals - but that the final figure may well be higher (because of people with no-one to report them, including lodgers and others living there unofficially (for example my housing association told me I don't have to tell them if I have a partner, family member, or lodger move in, so long as I don't over-occupy or operate a business (ie airb&b) - I don't know if thats the case in social housing generally - and there'll always be people staying with friends and family temporarily, not to mention subletting and airb&b going on either without the housing management's knowledge or in privately owned flats - and more of this going on because of the government's appalling housing policies).

But it seems odd that some sort of estimate isn't being given.
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Even with all the complications about sub-letting and people who were tenants who were out at the time, they've almost certainly got a ballpark figure. Something that won't be right, but won't be wrong by a magnitude of 10 for example. It seems they could be using phrases like 'tens', 'dozens' or 'is expected to rise over 100'. At one level, as an uninvolved member of the public, I'm not fussed about knowing, though there's the suspicion they are managing the flow of information. It's more important for the families with missing relatives. At the very least they need confidence that the authorities are being honest in their estimates, even if they turn out to be wrong ultimately.
 
I haven't commented on this thread as yet because I've struggled to both get my head around the scale of the tragedy and to manage my emotional responses. It feels almost inevitable that such a thing could happen, following the 'othering' of social housing residents, poor doors and all that.

I just want to break stuff right now. These cunts need to know and directly feel consequences for this institutionalised neglect. Enough. Fucking enough.
 
Artaxerxes said:
I don't much like the Royals but Lizzie is remarkably popular and liable to go down better than Lady May with the injured at the hospitals.

They are also fairly experienced at handling this sort of thing, and tend not be seen as directly responsible unlike say the government or council.
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I despise them. One good thing about the visit though is that it does make May look so much worse than she does already.
 
eatmorecheese said:
I haven't commented on this thread as yet because I've struggled to both get my head around the scale of the tragedy and to manage my emotional responses. It feels almost inevitable that such a thing could happen, following the 'othering' of social housing residents, poor doors and all that.

I just want to break stuff right now. These cunts need to know and directly feel consequences for this institutionalised neglect. Enough. Fucking enough.
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It hurts and enrages at the same time I find.
 
eatmorecheese said:
I haven't commented on this thread as yet because I've struggled to both get my head around the scale of the tragedy and to manage my emotional responses. It feels almost inevitable that such a thing could happen, following the 'othering' of social housing residents, poor doors and all that.

I just want to break stuff right now. These cunts need to know and directly feel consequences for this institutionalised neglect. Enough. Fucking enough.
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This is not a bad thing I feel , it is anger but it is also positive in strange sort of way - cannot let this fall away and be forgotten about or politically tempered into something more acceptable - this is pivotal
 
mod said:
Thought it wouldn't take long for 'voice of the people' Lily to be on the scene giving another tearful contribution to a news event. Am I being overly cynical about Lily Allen or is she as irritating as i think she is?
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I don't know a huge amount about her but she seems to really care about ordinary people in a way that I think other 'left' celebs like Billy Bragg do not. I don't think it's a career thing for her.
 
Ted Striker said:
A local Councillor on BBC live right now (that was present at all consultation meetings) just mentioned she remembered no mention of sprinklers, and has called this as an outright lie and for Paget-Brown to retract the statement.
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The way stuff like this is often done is that they send out some shitty consultation questionnaire, get a small percentage of them returned as a lot of people are too busy or can't be arsed filling it in (often because their views will be ignored anyway), then count the tenants that don't respond as being on the side of whatever they want. It's happened in some housing stock sell-offs, where they've claimed (as a hypothetical example) 'only 40% of residents were against the transfer to Crooked & Offshore Associates' when only half the consultations were responded to with 80% of residents against. Private Eye has had plenty of examples of this.
 
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