Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[ShiftyBagLady]

I don't have an opinion on Lily Allen either way but she's speaking up for people who keep getting patronised and censored by people interviewing them on tv. I think that's a good thing.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Thought it wouldn't take long for 'voice of the people' Lily to be on the scene giving another tearful contribution to a news event. Am I being overly cynical about Lily Allen or is she as irritating as i think she is?

I thought she got it spot on yesterday on the C4 news. Of course the points she made will be drowned out by the usual types giving her shit for being young, female and famous.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought she got it spot on yesterday on the C4 news. Of course the points she made will be drowned out by the usual types giving her shit for being young, female and famous.

and articulate

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I despise them. One good thing about the visit though is that it does make May look so much worse than she does already.

Yup.

Last night we were saying all the things she ought to have done, could have done, should have done.

But in the end, she did as she is, and it's fitting that she's showing herself as she truly is rather than acting like a person with any semblance of compassion or fellow feeling.

 

[Brainaddict]

The term 'out of touch' gets bandied around so much that you feel you need another term for the degree to which the Tories have failed to respond to this adequately. In their own fucking universe? Living in rich scum land?

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything. It's like to be a case of simply not knowing who was in there, and there's likely to be few undocumented people in there, people who don't have papers, people staying on mates sofas etc. So it's gonna be difficult to provide estimates

However, someone needs to go to fucking jail for this

 

[Pickman's model]

The term 'out of touch' gets bandied around so much that you feel you need another term for the degree to which the Tories have failed to respond to this adequately. In their own fucking universe? Living in rich scum land?

uncaring and wilfully ignorant seem to capture it without needing to ascend to hyperbole

 

[bimble]

The way stuff like this is often done is that they send out some shitty consultation questionnaire, get a small percentage of them returned as a lot of people are too busy or can't be arsed filling it in (often because their views will be ignored anyway), then count the tenants that don't respond as being on the side of whatever they want. It's happened in some housing stock sell-offs, where they've claimed (as a hypothetical example) 'only 40% of residents were against the transfer to Crooked & Offshore Associates' when only half the consultations were responded to with 80% of residents against. Private Eye has had plenty of examples of this.

Yes. My local example of this: Lambeth council published a 'consultation report' claiming that "many residents" had approved their plan to sell off the playground and replace it with flats. This was a complete lie, which under pressure they finally agreed had been a 'mistake', as nobody had actually said they approved of it at all, so they edited it out of their report, eventually.

 

[mod]

I don't have an opinion on Lily Allen either way but she's speaking up for people who keep getting patronised and censored by people interviewing them on tv. I think that's a good thing.

Yeah i do agree. I actually share many of her political views and like what she says but am increasingly finding her to be a bit of an attention seeker. Feels like she's desperate for a slot on question time. I'm torn.

 

[Wilf]

They haven't got their act together yet in terms of cranking up the PR machine and their media self defence strategy. I suspect they will be coming out with a few telling phrases in the next couple of days that will come back to haunt them.

Whole thing is going to be massive - the chance of riots is high, though more importantly I hope it produces something in terms of a united London working class movement (and beyond). However, as things stand, beyond some poor sap of a contractor or conceivably in the tenant management group, the chances of anyone more senior doing time are minimal.

 

[DotCommunist]

my old dear said to me last night that 'we're supposed to have world class safety on the oil rigs now but it took piper alpha to get there'. I don't know enough about all that (before my time and out of my knowledge wrt how it happened and so on, I just know it did) but it demonstrates what she and myself and many others will be feeling. People have to die before they'll listen. My response was that having the previous day watched the house of commons line up to suck Bercows dick and generally congratulate themselves for being part of this Historic House blah blah. Then the next day I'm seeing a social housing tower block burn. grinding my teeth.

 

[philx]

Cowell planning charity song for fire victims

Who incidentally donated 150 thousands Dollars directly to the IDF a couple of years ago

 

[Teaboy]

However, as things stand, beyond some poor sap of a contractor or conceivably in the tenant management group, the chances of anyone more senior doing time are minimal.

There are so many different companies involved in the construction process and so many layers of management involved in maintaining the flats. With all this bureaucracy no doubt it'll be enough to protect those higher up the tree.

 

[Casual Observer]

Not sure where this comes from but this is in London alone:

 

[Crispy]

There are so many different companies involved in the construction process and so many layers of management involved in maintaining the flats. With all this bureaucracy no doubt it'll be enough to protect those higher up the tree.

It usually comes down to who has the best lawyers (or who *had* the best lawyers when the contracts were written)

 

[Orang Utan]

Cowell planning charity song for fire victims

Who incidentally donated 150 thousands Dollars directly to the IDF a couple of years ago

Surely he'd raise more money if people paid for him not to release a charity single? I'd put a tenner in.

 

[mod]

If Lily Allen is right that 150 people perished there is going to be a riot. Get the feeling the authorities are withholding the true amount on purpose.

 

[EastEnder]

my old dear said to me last night that 'we're supposed to have world class safety on the oil rigs now but it took piper alpha to get there'. I don't know enough about all that (before my time and out of my knowledge wrt how it happened and so on, I just know it did) but it demonstrates what she and myself and many others will be feeling. People have to die before they'll listen. My response was that having the previous day watched the house of commons line up to suck Bercows dick and generally congratulate themselves for being part of this Historic House blah blah. Then the next day I'm seeing a social housing tower block burn. grinding my teeth.

Yeah, sadly this is so often the case - whether is planes & trains crashing, ferries sinking, oil rigs blowing up, it often takes a massive tragedy (or several...) before standards improve - and are legislated for. The very least that should come out of this are new laws mandating minimum fire safety across all forms of accommodation - and serious custodial sentences for any landlord / management company execs that fail to comply with them.

 

[Teaboy]

Not sure where this comes from but this is in London alone:

I think someone has just looked at case studies for projects this contractor has done. I'm not sure how helpful stuff like this is really. They may be all ACM but its not always obvious which product is on the wall. One of the photos looks more like a Trespa system which is a high pressure laminate rather than an ACM.

Even if they are all ACM, even if they are all Reynabond, even if they all have the polyethylene core we still don't know anything like enough to say these flats are a danger. I'm still sticking with my theory that the cladding panels themselves were a factor but by no means the only thing going on.

 

[not-bono-ever]

kabbes will know about these things I am sure- there is a *sort of* tolerance calculation of how many fatalities are accepted with major projects and what the trigger levels needed to be to able justify the extra expense to alleviate this risk. its a bit esoteric for me atm but I have come across this before (somewhere)

 

[Wilf]

Surely he'd raise more money if people paid for him not to release a charity single? I'd put a tenner in.

edit: that was a fucking stupid image to post. I posted up an obvious Rage Against the Machine 'reply' to Cowell, but the album art was highly inappropriate in the circumstances.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Cowell planning charity song for fire victims

Who incidentally donated 150 thousands Dollars directly to the IDF a couple of years ago

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Cowell is a cunt for many many reasons, and he'll be using this to siphon money off but dragging up the IDF is totally irrelevant.

 

[major major]

500 residents and they originally said at least 80 of the flats were empty? - absentee owners.
According to telegraph there are only 120 flats in the whole block.

 

[Treacle Toes]

500 flats and they originally said at least 80 of these were empty - absentee owners.

What?

 

[Kaka Tim]

Yeah, sadly this is so often the case - whether is planes & trains crashing, ferries sinking, oil rigs blowing up, it often takes a massive tragedy (or several...) before standards improve - and are legislated for. The very least that should come out of this are new laws mandating minimum fire safety across all forms of accommodation - and serious custodial sentences for any landlord / management company execs that fail to comply with them.

the things is there already had been a tragedy - 6 people died in a fire at larkanal high rise flats in 2009. A report was made with a series of recommendations (such as sprinkler systems) - the government has been sitting on the report ever since.

 

[kabbes]

kabbes will know about these things I am sure- there is a *sort of* tolerance calculation of how many fatalities are accepted with major projects and what the trigger levels needed to be to able justify the extra expense to alleviate this risk. its a bit esoteric for me atm but I have come across this before (somewhere)

There always inevitably must be a tolerance to fatal failure, but it's really, really low these days. Spectacular coincidence kind of low, not just "whoops there was a major flaw that killed everyone, sorry about that" low. We're not living in the days of that Ford car that had its fuel tank in the bumper.

 

[nuffsaid]

Scum journalist impersonated relative to get an interview with a survivor in hospital - Unbelievable!

Sun journalist 'impersonated Grenfell Tower victim's relative at hospital'

 

[Wilf]

500 residents and they originally said at least 80 of the flats were empty - absentee owners.

Do you have a source for that please?

 

[EastEnder]

the things is there already had been a tragedy - 6 people died in a fire at larkanal high rise flats in 2009. A report was made with a series of recommendations (such as sprinkler systems) - the government has been sitting on the report ever since.

"Only" 6 people though... Not sure that's enough to cross the threshold of a government cost/benefit analysis... the evil fuckers need more blood before they'll act...

 

[Barking_Mad]