Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[crossthebreeze]

There's some stuff blaming a black guy for having a dodgy fridge already.

I predict full-on Hillsbourough style victim blaming within days.

Yeah, I just saw some shit Metro article making insinuations because the man whose flat it started in had a bag with him when he knocked on his neighbours door - media literally trying to turn neighbour against neighbour.
And drawing attention away from the point that buildings of this size need to have foolproof systems which stop the spread of the fire and automatically raise the alarm and why the fuck did this building have none of this.
Fucking shithead journalists.

 

[bi0boy]

But the fire regs under Blair are the same as now! No one has ripped out fire prevention measures. They were safe yesterday as they were 12 years ago.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Buckaroo]

As if she cares
Prob got a new album out, looking for publicity, now off to her gated mansion

As if you care you daft cunt, fuck off.

 

[ruffneck23]

Intelligent, Typical

As opposed to your intelligent reasoning ?

 

[Pickman's model]

you need to need to be very careful less people think you're a cunt

We already know he is

 

[ruffneck23]

We already know he is

Ah a bit slow on the uptake , still proven once again

 

[Treacle Toes]

Labour bods really getting it now live on air as they were around when lots of these building reg decisions were made
Now Lilly slag Allen is on aptly lives local , blaming everything on the Tories , always a agenda with her
A few minutes before she turned up she would have heard the Labour officials going through the mill
she will have to be very careful re Libel

Fuck off you pointless, snivelling prick.

 

[1927]

It's a change, though, isn't it? I just don't get why it's such a bad thing to consider how something looks as well as the need for improved insulation. There are much better things to be annoyed about here.

The conservation area isn't a new development, btw, but a protected area of older buildings.

My point is that the new cladding was installed as a result of what an existing structure looked like from a new development, that isn't the point if conservation area legislation.

 

[ruffneck23]

As if she cares
Prob got a new album out, looking for publicity, now off to her gated mansion

And where do you live sweetie ?

 

[1927]

As if she cares
Prob got a new album out, looking for publicity, now off to her gated mansion

Does her motivation matter if she's putting it out there?

 

[1927]

Are you sure about that?

Sorry I missed out AS. As in As safe, sorry! Assuming that's what you were picking up on!

 

[scifisam]

Adele was there early apparently, for some reason or other.

She attended the vigil, was crying and didn't pose for publicity photos (saw the crying on blurry phone photos someone had taken). What a terrible person she clearly is.

 

[DotCommunist]

regardless, you don't call women slags because its out of order. So what if they like fucking, lots of humans do only one half of the species is made to feel shit about it. Take this irrelevance elsewhere.

 

[scifisam]

My point is that the new cladding was installed as a result of what an existing structure looked like from a new development, that isn't the point if conservation area legislation.

I thought it talked about the view from the conservation area?

Christ, it's not a big deal. Why some of you think that planners should be allowed to whack up anything as ugly as they like I don't know. Oh, I remember, it's important that it's an existing structure. Obviously that means that any changes to it would be invisible, silly me.

 

[editor]

Now Lilly slag Allen is on aptly lives local

Take a warning for that, you misogynistic idiot.

 

[1927]

I was teaching a health and safety course today and the first trainee that came in was a guy I know who is a fire expert. We talked about the fire and he agreed heads will have to roll and people must go to gaol. We agreed in one important point tho, in our opinion the building regs are a red herring. It doesn't matter what the standards were at the time the building was constructed . The Fire regs state that you must have suitable and sufficient fire preventative measures in place. There is no get out clause for old buildings.

 

[1927]

I thought it talked about the view from the conservation area?

Christ, it's not a big deal. Why some of you think that planners should be allowed to whack up anything as ugly as they like I don't know. Oh, I remember, it's important that it's an existing structure. Obviously that means that any changes to it would be invisible, silly me.

You totally miss the point. The changes were made to the block because of the view from a new structure! Sounds to me like you and your mate Teuchter are apologists for poor fire prevention.

 

[J Ed]

Labour bods really getting it now live on air as they were around when lots of these building reg decisions were made
Now Lilly slag Allen is on aptly lives local , blaming everything on the Tories , always a agenda with her
A few minutes before she turned up she would have heard the Labour officials going through the mill
she will have to be very careful re Libel

It has really rattled people like you that the response to this preventable tragedy (really manslaughter) has been a mix of ordinary people coming together in support of one another and anger directed at those who are responsible.

 

[1%er]

Police open criminal investigation into Grenfell Tower fire

Does the police opening a criminal investigation have any effect on a public inquiry, can they run at the same time?

I seem to remember reading that a parliamentary inquiry ( a different case to this) was stopped in case it interfered with a police investigation and was wondering if the same thing could hold up a public inquiry.

 

[Lord Camomile]

For what it's worth, there's this one.

And you people doubted the power of petitions!

two middle-ranking ministers, Nick Hurd from the Home Office and housing minister Alok Sharma, fielding questions from, among others, the omnipresent Mr Corbyn. Very significant concessions were made: all homeless residents will be rehoused in the area, and children will be able to continue at their schools.

(Obviously you have to hope they won't try and weasel out of it or only deliver half-measures)

 

[ska invita]

Don't read comments in newspapers unless you want your blood pressure to rocket

I was talking about comments on urban!

(attempt at a joke)

 

[Treacle Toes]

Rehoused where would be my first question ?

 

[scifisam]

You totally miss the point. The changes were made to the block because of the view from a new structure! Sounds to me like you and your mate Teuchter are apologists for poor fire prevention.

That's a fucking shitty thing to say. Fuck off.

Also, the changes were NOT made for that reason. Read the stuff you're talking about! In.su.la.tion. Is that a really really hard word for you?

Actually, no, after an accusation like that, you total fucking bastard, I'm putting you on ignore rather than derail the thread.

 

[agricola]

Does the police opening a criminal investigation have any effect on a public inquiry, can they run at the same time?

I seem to remember reading that a parliamentary inquiry ( a different case to this) was stopped in case it interfered with a police investigation and was wondering if the same thing could hold up a public inquiry.

the relevant bit of the Inquiries Act (emphasis added):

13 Power to suspend inquiry

(1)The Minister may at any time, by notice to the chairman, suspend an inquiry for such period as appears to him to be necessary to allow for—

(a)the completion of any other investigation relating to any of the matters to which the inquiry relates, or

(b)the determination of any civil or criminal proceedings (including proceedings before a disciplinary tribunal) arising out of any of those matters.

(2)The power conferred by subsection (1) may be exercised whether or not the investigation or proceedings have begun.

(3)Before exercising that power the Minister must consult the chairman.

(4)A notice under subsection (1) may suspend the inquiry until a specified day, until the happening of a specified event or until the giving by the Minister of a further notice to the chairman.

(5)Where the Minister gives a notice under subsection (1) he must—

(a)set out in the notice his reasons for suspending the inquiry;

(b)lay a copy of the notice, as soon as is reasonably practicable, before the relevant Parliament or Assembly.

(6)A member of an inquiry panel may not exercise the powers conferred by this Act during any period of suspension; but the duties imposed on a member of an inquiry panel by section 9(3) and (4) continue during any such period.

(7)In this section “period of suspension” means the period beginning with the receipt by the chairman of the notice under subsection (1) and ending with whichever of the following is applicable—

(a)the day referred to in subsection (4);

(b)the happening of the event referred to in that subsection;

(c)the receipt by the chairman of the further notice under that subsection.

 

[bimble]

Guardian editorial is calling it May's Katrina.
Ends with the demand that "the families of victims and survivors must have legal aid so that they are on a level playing field at both the inquests and the inquiry. That must be guaranteed at once, so that they have the space to begin the process of grieving."
Which is a good point

 

[agricola]

Guardian editorial is calling it May's Katrina.
Ends with the demand that "the families of victims and survivors must have legal aid so that they are on a level playing field at both the inquests and the inquiry. That must be guaranteed at once, so that they have the space to begin the process of grieving."
Which is a good point

Lets hope someone notices what was in their manifesto then.

 

[Who PhD]

Lets hope someone notices what was in their manifesto then.

they've already taken legal aid away, how could their manifesto propose worse?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

In regards to the insultingly useless response of May to such a horror and death toll, who else is reminded of Bush/Katrina?

 

[Humberto]

What is/should be happening in terms of counseling, liaison, proper accommodation? I can't begin to imagine how it must feel for them. Shock and grief must be beyond imagining. Lack of real help beyond grassroots volunteer stuff i.e decisive moves by authorities to assist them in an emergency situation is quite sickening.
Longer term I hope they are assisted towards getting some hefty compensation.

 

[YouSir]

What is/should be happening in terms of counseling, liaison, proper accommodation? I can't begin to imagine how it must feel for them. Shock and grief must be beyond imagining. Lack of real help beyond grassroots volunteer stuff i.e decisive moves by authorities to assist them in an emergency situation is quite sickening.
Longer term I hope they are assisted towards getting some hefty compensation.

As far as counselling goes I'd be surprised if there's anything beyond a possible flying visit, resources have been so stripped away on that front. Can only hope there's some community/charity organisation which can organise things.