Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[CRI]

Some on Twitter pointing out that the scheme isn't compliant with GDPR, which is now UK Law. Basically, Home Office is saying they'll take a mass of highly personal data from applicants, including biometric shit, keep it as long as they like, and do with it what they please and share it with whomever they want.

ID cards failed because people didn't want the state all up in people's private info like this. Guess it's fine to do with 'furriners' though. If they get away with it, don't be surprised if it creeps in for other people, too.

BBC was also using the word 'registration' to describe the scheme, when it's actually an application process. The way it's described from the landing page is that if you aren't accepted, you could be booted out.

It is NOT the same as schemes in other countries where you just have to register. It's disingenuous for the BBC or anyone else to suggest it's the same kind of thing.

And anyone who thinks the Home Office won't totally screw up with their own hastily drawn up scheme is frankly bananas. All this is pointless, unless the goal is to harass and intimidate people into leaving, which I suspect it is.

 

[Theisticle]

Spain will look for similar guarantees regarding Spanish nationals here

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-spain-pm-pedro-sanchez-eu-settlement-scheme-video/

 

[CRI]

Spain will look for similar guarantees regarding Spanish nationals here

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-spain-pm-pedro-sanchez-eu-settlement-scheme-video/

I'd expect Spain and other countries to do no less. It only seems fair. However, the UK Government has shown no interest in any kind of reciprocal agreements with other EU nations. The shitty Home Office scheme involves applying and selecting people who can stay and those who can't. Knowing the "efficiency" of the Home Office, the latter is likely to happen as much through mistakes and general incompetence as anything else.

So, don't be surprised if the 300K Brits "sojourning" in Spain get sent packing back to blighty. Or maybe they'll allow one British citizen to stay for each Spanish Citizen that gets accepted to remain in the UK.

 

[Theisticle]

Given the strain Brits put on Spanish healthcare, it would put an equal strain here if no agreement on rights is met. Spain and other countries are right in their stance. This is a nakedly xenophobic and racist attack on rights by the Home Office, as standard. I fear for similar examples of Windrush. Or, people will just give up British citizenship and settle in Europe. I’m in two minds about doing just that.

 

[The39thStep]

Given the strain Brits put on Spanish healthcare, it would put an equal strain here if no agreement on rights is met. Spain and other countries are right in their stance. This is a nakedly xenophobic and racist attack on rights by the Home Office, as standard. I fear for similar examples of Windrush. Or, people will just give up British citizenship and settle in Europe. I’m in two minds about doing just that.

Under the present EU agreements the UK makes payments to EU states for the majority of heathcare costs for our citizens and vice versa.

 

[tim]

Or, people will just give up British citizenship and settle in Europe. I’m in two minds about doing just that.

I think that all EU states would look on you even less kindly as a stateless refugee than as a British citizen.

 

[Theisticle]

I think that all EU states would look on you even less kindly as a stateless refugee than as a British citizen.

I can get citizenship for Spain but would mean giving up British citizenship. I’m agonising over it tbh.

 

[Winot]

Another aspect of the HO scheme is that the seriousness of a past criminal conviction determines whether you’re in or out. I assume that this is going to be assessed by a human being rather than by computer. Where will the staff come from or will it be outsourced to the likes of Crapita?

 

[tim]

Another aspect of the HO scheme is that the seriousness of a past criminal conviction determines whether you’re in or out. I assume that this is going to be assessed by a human being rather than by computer. Where will the staff come from or will it be outsourced to the likes of Crapita?

My assumption is that your assumption is wrong.

Of course it will be outsourced to either Crapita or Serco who will the run all applications through a computer.

 

[andysays]

I think that all EU states would look on you even less kindly as a stateless refugee than as a British citizen.

I'd be amazed if anyone simply 'gives up British citizenship' or becomes a stateless refugee as a result of any of this.

And if people are genuinely intending to make their lives in the country in which they're living, what's the overwhelming problem with them going through the same process as anyone else would in those circumstances and becoming a citizen of that country, whether that's Britain for non-UK EU citizens currently here, or whatever EU country British citizens have chosen to live in?

 

[CRI]

This didn't age well.

 

[Poi E]

To be fair, the dude doesn't even know what fucking country he's in.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/fake-vi...glish-countryside-tweets-picture-vermont-usa/

 

[CRI]

To be fair, the dude doesn't even know what fucking country he's in.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/fake-vi...glish-countryside-tweets-picture-vermont-usa/

True, but this was actually included among the plethora of fucking lies in the official Leave campaign. Have a look here.

Restoring public trust in immigration policy - a points-based non-discriminatory immigration system

We therefore propose that if Britain votes to take back control on 23 June, we should introduce a new, safer and more humane immigration system as rapidly as possible. The main principles for such a new system will, we believe, be broadly supported across British society.

First, there will be no change for Irish citizens. The right of Irish citizens to enter, reside and work in the UK is already enshrined in our law. This will be entirely unaffected by a vote to leave on 23 June.

As the Northern Ireland Secretary has made clear, the common travel area that has existed since the creation of an independent Irish state will not be affected. There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Second, there will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK and will be treated no less favourably than they are at present.

 

[JHE]

I can get citizenship for Spain but would mean giving up British citizenship. I’m agonising over it tbh.

I take it you have been living legally in Spain for the last 10 years.

Sánchez has talked about changing the laws of nationality. If that happened one of the changes could be to allow people who gain Spanish citizenship to retain their other citizenship, a right which at the moment is limited to people from certain countries. Unfortunately, Sánchez is unlikely to be able to cobble together a majority for this and frankly it's not going to be a priority to try.

I believe, but of course cannot demonstrate, that many of the British people who over the years have gained Spanish citizenship have retained their British citizenship on the quiet. Nothing is done to check you have given up your other citizenship and you cannot lose British citizenship inadvertently.

In practical terms I think the problem would be that there is an enormous backlog of applications. Unless you applied several years ago, the chances of your getting Spanish citizenship in the next three months are about zero.

I am delighted that Sánchez has now finally said what he has said about resident Britons. I think the delay was probably largely because the govt wanted to wait until there was an EU-wide policy, rather than announcing a specifically Spanish policy in anticipation of an official EU position.

I am in the very lucky position of being a Maltese citizen and I have an appointment in January with the Oficina de Extranjería to ask them to amend my entry in the Central Register of Foreigners so that I am registered as Maltese and will be officially recognised as an EU citizen even after March. But I think even if I did not have that good luck, I would be very reassured by what the EU published recently and especially by what Sánchez has now said.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Grandfather rights would surely be the logical way to go.

 

[weltweit]

Apparently there is an interview pre getting your first UK Passport now.

Sprog hasn't had one yet, hoping he can get one toute suite !!

 

[Gramsci]

And if people are genuinely intending to make their lives in the country in which they're living, what's the overwhelming problem with them going through the same process as anyone else would in those circumstances and becoming a citizen of that country, whether that's Britain for non-UK EU citizens currently here, or whatever EU country British citizens have chosen to live in?

The problem is my friends and my partner were quite happy living in UK keeping their Polish and Spanish citizenship. Didn't stop them making their lives in this country. And I object to the "genuinely intending". They have been genuine about making their lives here.

And to add this does not apply to those from Eire living here. The government has made that clear. Are they not genuine?

 

[JHE]

I'd be amazed if anyone simply 'gives up British citizenship' or becomes a stateless refugee as a result of any of this.

And if people are genuinely intending to make their lives in the country in which they're living, what's the overwhelming problem with them going through the same process as anyone else would in those circumstances and becoming a citizen of that country, whether that's Britain for non-UK EU citizens currently here, or whatever EU country British citizens have chosen to live in?

No, you won't become stateless by giving up British citizenship. One of the conditions of giving it up is that you already have another citizenship. British law does not allow you to opt to become stateless.

The problems for a British person living in Spain gaining Spanish citizenship include:
* Residence requirement: 10 years (continuous, you can't add on previous periods of residence)
* Spanish law currently obliges you to give up British citizenship when you get Spanish citizenship, so
* You have the choice of breaking the law, by retaining your British citizenship or, post-Brexit, permanently losing the automatic right to live in the UK.
* You have to wait years for your application for Spanish citizenship to be processed. There's an enormous backlog.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The problem is my friends and my partner were quite happy living in UK keeping their Polish and Spanish citizenship. Didn't stop them making their lives in this country. And I object to the "genuinely intending". They have been genuine about making their lives here.

And to add this does not apply to those from Eire living here. The government has made that clear. Are they not genuine?

I'm not sure what a non-genuine immigrant looks like tbh. Do they just pretend to live, work and pay taxes here?

And people make their lives as best they can. That might mean moving away from here to go somewhere else after a few months or years or decades. So what? Are Jamaican-born people who sell up to retire back in Jamaica somehow non-genuine? How about those disloyal fuckers who send remittances back home? What does 'genuine' even mean?

 

[The39thStep]

The general advice here in Portugal is to apply now for the five year residency card ( if people haven't got one already) and then apply for a further one six months before that expires . The venue for the application and the documents required may vary by then but after 10 years ( ie two five year periods ) an application for permanent residency can be made. No need to give up UK citizenship .

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not sure what a non-genuine immigrant looks like tbh. Do they just pretend to live, work and pay taxes here?

And people make their lives as best they can. That might mean moving away from here to go somewhere else after a few months or years or decades. So what? Are Jamaican-born people who sell up to retire back in Jamaica somehow non-genuine? How about those disloyal fuckers who send remittances back home? What does 'genuine' even mean?

My friends in Brixton of Carribbean background have relatives who came here as part of Windrush generation. Their relatives kept their passports from Grenada for example as they felt as commonwealth citizens they were part of the community in this country. That turned out well. Under Mays hostile environment no longer "genuinely" living here. Their fault for not applying for genuine British citizenship.

 

[andysays]

My friends in Brixton of Carribbean background have relatives who came here as part of Windrush generation. Their relatives kept their passports from Grenada for example as they felt as commonwealth citizens they were part of the community in this country. That turned out well. Under Mays hostile environment no longer "genuinely" living here. Their fault for not applying for genuine British citizenship.

And when my soon to be mother in law came to Britain from the Philippines she did apply for and was granted British citizenship, because that was the best (if not the only) way to guarantee that she could live and work here as she wished.

Her sister, my girlfriend's aunt, is currently applying for a visa to allow her to travel to Britain for a few days to be present at her niece's wedding, we still don't know if she'll be allowed to enter the country.

This general situation is certainly not what I would want, but I'm still struggling to understand why EU citizens should expect to get automatic rights to live and work in Britain after Brexit simply on the basis that Britain used to be in the EU when anyone from the rest of the world has to go through the process Auntie Sophia has to even to be allowed to visit.

 

[spitfire]

Not worth engaging with.

 

[The39thStep]

Not worth engaging with.

Why don't you argue your corner?

 

[spitfire]

Why don't you argue your corner?

Because arguing on the basis of false equivalences with an obvious fundamentalist is pointless. But I thought I may as well put a marker in the sand.

My corner is not a political theory. It is the fact of the future that me and my family are facing. Brexit thread ------>

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And when my soon to be mother in law came to Britain from the Philippines she did apply for and was granted British citizenship, because that was the best (if not the only) way to guarantee that she could live and work here as she wished.

Her sister, my girlfriend's aunt, is currently applying for a visa to allow her to travel to Britain for a few days to be present at her niece's wedding, we still don't know if she'll be allowed to enter the country.

This general situation is certainly not what I would want, but I'm still struggling to understand why EU citizens should expect to get automatic rights to live and work in Britain after Brexit simply on the basis that Britain used to be in the EU when anyone from the rest of the world has to go through the process Auntie Sophia has to even to be allowed to visit.

Nobody here has stated their approval of the way non-EU people are currently treated. That such treatment is to be extended to more people is the situation in point, plus an added twist of retrospective reclassification.

You are arguing the position of power. This is topsy-turvy. In fact, it has led you to state almost exactly the same thing as Theresa May has been stating recently as she defends this clusterfuck. You've gone wrong somewhere when you start repeating stuff said by Theresa May to justify herself.

 

[Gramsci]

And when my soon to be mother in law came to Britain from the Philippines she did apply for and was granted British citizenship, because that was the best (if not the only) way to guarantee that she could live and work here as she wished.

Her sister, my girlfriend's aunt, is currently applying for a visa to allow her to travel to Britain for a few days to be present at her niece's wedding, we still don't know if she'll be allowed to enter the country.

This general situation is certainly not what I would want, but I'm still struggling to understand why EU citizens should expect to get automatic rights to live and work in Britain after Brexit simply on the basis that Britain used to be in the EU when anyone from the rest of the world has to go through the process Auntie Sophia has to even to be allowed to visit.

You have quoted my post 201 which was about Commonwealth citizens. So ur saying the same about the Windrush generation? Or is that a mistake? They came here years ago as Commonwealth citizens ( formerly part of British Empire) thinking they had right to live here on basis of being Commonwealth citizens.

btw I'm an EU citizen. UK hasn't left yet.

 

[Gramsci]

This general situation is certainly not what I would want, but I'm still struggling to understand why EU citizens should expect to get automatic rights to live and work in Britain after Brexit simply on the basis that Britain used to be in the EU when anyone from the rest of the world has to go through the process Auntie Sophia has to even to be allowed to visit.

After Brexit the only EU nationals the government says will not have to go through the process of getting settled status are EU nationals from Eire. So I take it you object to that? They won't be affected by Brexit and will be able to live here with automatic rights.

 

[Gramsci]

This particularly inept HO tweet appears to be instructing nearly all of the UK population to apply to their 'settlement scheme'.

View attachment 157087

Perhaps not so inept.

This helps reinforce idea that these non UK EU citizens were never really part of UK.

 

[Favelado]

I can get citizenship for Spain but would mean giving up British citizenship. I’m agonising over it tbh.

Me too. Remember you can always get your UK citizenship back but they'll charge you 1500 quid. I wish Spain did dual-nationality for us.