Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[spitfire]

So she's dropped the fee....Graun link

May says £65 fee for EU nationals applying for settled status to be abolished
May says the government wants to accept the John Mann amendment guaranteeing workers’ rights after Brexit. It will consider legislating for this.

Turning to EU nationals, May says the government will not charge the proposed fee for EU nationals who apply for settled status so they can stay in the UK. It was to be £65 for adults and £32.50 for under-16s.

 

[DexterTCN]

The fee may go but the process will stay.

 

[ska invita]

Good. But yeah, can't see it making a difference in terms of rejection rates and maybe just a little on take up rates.
Interesting to wonder WHY this last minute change though. Some kind of reaching out to cross-MPs? Reducing a layer of bureaucracy before the inevitable iceberg crash?

Anyone know what the John Mann amendment is meant to do exactly?

 

[DexterTCN]

Good. But yeah, can't see it making a difference in terms of rejection rates and maybe just a little on take up rates...

God no. In fact they'll probably take some staff out of application processing to deal with refunds and that'll increase the backlog.

 

[andysays]

The fee may go but the process will stay.

Why should there not be a process for EU citizens to apply for settled status? The alternative, surely, is that they don't have settled status, or at least that their status remains ambiguous.

There are processes which all of us have to go through in our various dealings with the state, to prove our entitlement to something or other, often at significant inconvenience. I seem to remember that you work for a particular arm of the state which demands that we all go through various processes related to our income and taxation on it.

Are you suggesting that all these processes should be waived, and if not, why do you think this particular one should be singled out for your opprobrium?

 

[butchersapron]

Good. But yeah, can't see it making a difference in terms of rejection rates and maybe just a little on take up rates.
Interesting to wonder WHY this last minute change though. Some kind of reaching out to cross-MPs? Reducing a layer of bureaucracy before the inevitable iceberg crash?

The 30%, 25% or the 0% rejection rate? Of course there's no reason why it would effect outcomes.

edit: at least negatively, it may lead to more people being oked on grounds that may have warranted further investigation in the past as result of increased take-up.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyone know what the John Mann amendment is meant to do exactly?

Usually promote the good of John Mann:

At end, add “agrees with paragraph 79 of the political declaration that the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition and that provisions to ensure this should cover state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environmental standards, climate change, and relevant tax matters, building on the level playing field arrangements provided for in the withdrawal agreement and commensurate with the overall economic relationship; and determines not to allow the UK leaving the EU to result in any lowering after exit day of common EU UK standards provided for in the withdrawal agreement in relation to employment, environmental protection and health and safety which will continue to protect the wellbeing of every person in this country; and determines that the government should invite the House to consider any measure approved by EU institutions after exit day which strengthens any of these protections.

So it looks like a Corbyn knobbling move under the guise of workers rights. Very odd.

 

[ska invita]

Why should there not be a process for EU citizens to apply for settled status? The alternative, surely is that they don't have settled status, or at least that their status remains ambiguous.

There are processes which all of us have to go through in our various dealings with the state, to prove our entitlement to something or other, often at significant inconvenience. I seem to remember that you work for a particular arm of the state which demands that we all go through various processes related to our income and taxation on it.

Are you suggesting that all these processes should be waived, and if not, why do you think this particular one should be singled out for your opprobrium?

I take it you've read the links in the OP which set out why several tens if not hundreds of thousands of people will be made illegal.
And why now while they are legal they are still being denied housing and work.
And why this government doesn't give a shit and deports with enthusiasm.
You're either comfortable with that or not.
I'm not. It doesn't have to happen. Cheer it on if you wish...

 

[butchersapron]

Keep the things that are deteriorating workers conditions down in order to protect workers.

 

[andysays]

I take it you've read the links in the OP which set out why several tens if not hundreds of thousands of people will be made illegal.
And why now while they are legal they are still being denied housing and work.
And why this government doesn't give a shit and deports with enthusiasm.
You're either comfortable with that or not.
I'm not. It doesn't have to happen. Cheer it on if you wish...

TBH, you have been so cavalier in making claims based on misunderstandings or misrepresentations of things you've read that I'm struggling to take anything you say on this subject seriously.

 

[ska invita]

TBH, you have been so cavalier in making claims based on misunderstandings of things you've read that I'm struggling to take anything you say on this subject seriously.

If that allows you to ignore this, sleep tight.

 

[ska invita]

TBH, you have been so cavalier in making claims based on misunderstandings or misrepresentations of things you've read that I'm struggling to take anything you say on this subject seriously.

Try playing the ball
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....-failing-to-secure-their-rights-after-brexit/
Not the man.

 

[zahir]

May’s statement: PM statement to the House of Commons on Brexit: 21 January 2019

 

[Badgers]

Unusual for May to do a u-turn

 

[ska invita]

Unusual for May to do a u-turn

Beats coming up with a new deal. Change something else instead.

 

[zahir]

Where is the u-turn?

I’ve skimmed through it and my impression is that there aren’t really any substantial changes. Or maybe I’m missing something.

 

[andysays]

If that allows you to ignore this, sleep tight.

I'm not ignoring the subject, it affects various people I know, and I've already mentioned the experiences of a soon-to-be-relative of mine from somewhere other than the EU who has had to pay to go through a visa process simply to be allowed to enter the country to attend her niece's wedding, now thankfully granted.

I'm still left wondering why EU citizens should be exempt from any sort of process to establish or demonstrate their right to settled status in the UK, when everyone else does have to demonstrate their entitlement to this and many other rights.

You seem unwilling or unable to address this issue, and instead come out with distorted predictions about people being denied settled status and smears about other people's ability to sleep at night

 

[butchersapron]

Where is the u-turn?

I’ve skimmed through it and my impression is that there aren’t really any substantial changes. Or maybe I’m missing something.

I can confirm today that when we roll out the scheme in full on 30th March, the government will waive the application fee so that there is no financial barrier for any EU nationals who wish to stay. And anyone who has or will apply during the pilot phase will have their fee reimbursed.

That's it. Not what i'd call a u-turn myself but a good thing nonetheless.

 

[andysays]

Try playing the ball

Not the man.

Bit late for you to come out with this, given your previous comments...

 

[zahir]

That's it. Not what i'd call a u-turn myself but a good thing nonetheless.

Agreed.

I can’t see much change in her wider approach though. And no sign of her backing away from going through with a no deal if she can’t get support for the withdrawal agreement.

 

[butchersapron]

Agreed. I can’t see much change in her wider approach though.

Of course, but we're on a thread specifically about the EU settlement plan not the EU/brexit as a whole.

 

[zahir]

Fair enough. I’ve got my threads mixed up. I meant to post the link to May’s statement on the main thread.

 

[ska invita]

The apps not even working properly for lots of people
Home Office may struggle to register EU settlers in time, say campaigners

 

[The39thStep]

Portugal plans special lanes for Britons in airports after Brexit

Even without a Brexit deal, the estimated 45,000-50,000 British citizens living in Portugal – only 23,000 of whom are officially registered – will be able to retain their residence and other rights, including access to state healthcare and recognition of UK academic qualifications, Costa added.

 

[butchersapron]

The oldest alliance just said yes, no eu. no problem. Which is impossible. Of course.

 

[ska invita]

Step by step account of using the app by an IT expert. Doesn't sound straight forward to me.

Also suggests a National Insurance number is required and central to the approval process. There will be many who don't have one.


The Brexit settled status app works, but problems are lurking | WIRED UK

 

[Pickman's model]

Unusual for May to do a u-turn

no indeed, she's more like admiral farragut - damn the torpedoes full speed ahead

 

[Dogsauce]

The cynic in me connected the dots between May scrapping these charges and some Polish EU bod (whose nationals would be the largest beneficiaries of this generosity) piping up in support of her deal.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[brogdale]

Piss-boiler of the morning?