Euros Final - Italy v England - Sunday 11/07 - 20:00

[neonwilderness]

Lots of armchair punditry from a couple of people in the office today. Even I know that they're talking complete shite

 

[The39thStep]

Looked like a red in slomo

But it wasn’t , his foot came off the ball. I watched the highlights in Portuguese TV this morning and they didn’t make as much comment over it as BBC did at the time

 

[Steel Icarus]

But it wasn’t , his foot came off the ball. I watched the highlights in Portuguese TV this morning and they didn’t make as much comment over it as BBC did at the time

I bet they made a lot of comment in 2006 when Rooney accidentally brutally rearranged Carvalho's nads for him in retaliation for a foul that wasn't given.

 

[Wilf]

They were the best penalty takers in training, apparently. Don't know about Saka and Sancho, but Rashford has a proven track record too, and arguably did everything right (in that he sent Donnarumma the wrong way), except, y'know, a couple of inches off target (which yes, arguably is the most important bit...).

As others on this thread have pointed out, who else was there and on what criteria would you be picking them? I mean, it certainly doesn't sit comfortably with me having players so young taking the most important penalties in our nation's history, but in terms of "good at taking penalties" Henderson missed his last one (and SI said has only ever taken one for Liverpool?), Grealish likewise doesn't take many.

Maybe that doesn't matter, and Southgate shouldn't have put three young men in such a pressure situation, and arguably three black men in the potential firing line, but trusting the players that he believes are the best penalty takers..? There's been far worse reasons to pick players.

I'm not going to rant on about it as Southgate and the team did us proud, but the penalty decisions were odd. It was fine having Sancho and Rashford taking penalties but they needed to have been in the game, warmed up literally and metaphorically. Should have brought them on earlier for that reason and, I think 30 minutes earlier in terms of the wider game. England needed Rashford's pace and Sterling was flagging - that was Southgate's conservatism. As to Saka, however good he'd been taking pens in training, putting that responsibility on a 19 year old wasn't a good choice. Don't know what went on when he chose his penalty takers of course, but you do wonder why Grealish and Sterling weren't in the first 5.

Having said all that, I think it's best to regard it as a draw and penalties are just the mechanism for who takes a cup home on the plane. I felt like that after Man United lost the Europa Cup that way this year and even when we won the Champions League against Chelsea. In that sense I'm not that fussed about the penalties, despite typing a full para above.

 

[ska invita]

I'm less fused about the penalty takers more the silly run ups which so often fuck up .. Ban them!

 

[Lord Camomile]

As to Saka, however good he'd been taking pens in training, putting that responsibility on a 19 year old wasn't a good choice.

Aye, even if you accept the five, you'd think maybe Rashford should have been fifth, given he's that little bit older got more experience at pretty much all levels and aspects of the game, including taking penalties and handling media pressure.

But, maybe it was as simple as someone suggested: order is best to worst. Which... I dunno, can sort of see the logic, but feel like more often than not it fails when it comes into contact with reality.

 

[The39thStep]

England’s defeat makes front pages of the Portuguese football paper Record

 

[JimW]

England’s defeat makes front pages of the Portuguese football paper Record

View attachment 278256

No portugese but it's Italy's success rather than our failure surely

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No portugese but it's Italy's success rather than our failure shortly.

'Home team loses the final again'

They're comparing Italy's win with Portugal's over France.

So England's defeat makes it without them even being named.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm not going to rant on about it as Southgate and the team did us proud, but the penalty decisions were odd. It was fine having Sancho and Rashford taking penalties but they needed to have been in the game, warmed up literally and metaphorically. Should have brought them on earlier for that reason and, I think 30 minutes earlier in terms of the wider game. England needed Rashford's pace and Sterling was flagging - that was Southgate's conservatism. As to Saka, however good he'd been taking pens in training, putting that responsibility on a 19 year old wasn't a good choice. Don't know what went on when he chose his penalty takers of course, but you do wonder why Grealish and Sterling weren't in the first 5.

Agree with pretty much all of that regarding the penalty strategy, but they could have gone Kane, Maguire, Sterling, Grealish and Phillips and still lost. It's a lottery and I can't get too worked up about it.

Where I do take issue is with your comment - and one currently being forced down our throats by people who know fuck all about football in the main - that 'Southgate and the team did us proud". I'd argue that the conditions: a very favourable draw, home fixtures for all but one game against a very poor Ukraine, good (and even fortunate) referring decisions, no injuries etc are a combination of factors never to be repeated.

Southgate's conservatism, preferring to set sides up to avoid defeat rather than to win games and his insistence on a 7/3 (at times last night an 8/2) balance between player who are defensive rather than offensive was a mind set that was always going to count at some point. That double pivot of Phillips and Rice, the slowness to bring subs on, the inability to respond to coaching strategies from the other side. The team is exciting and full of potential, but Southgate still has major question marks at the top level. The defeat last night was very similar to the defeat against Croatia 3 three years ago: with a lead being squandered by being sat on rather than built on suggesting he learnt little from it.

 

[Wilf]

I'm less fused about the penalty takers more the silly run ups which so often fuck up .. Ban them!

 

[The39thStep]

 

[The39thStep]

Reminder in red that Ronaldo was the top goal scorer in the comp

 

[Flavour]

at least you lot don't have your social media feeds full of italians many of whom have very little sense of grace in victory

 

[rekil]

If you think that was disappointing, wait til you're on your way in the tumbril little man.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Agree with pretty much all of that regarding the penalty strategy, but they could have gone Kane, Maguire, Sterling, Grealish and Phillips and still lost. It's a lottery and I can't get too worked up about it.

Where I do take issue is with your comment - and one currently being forced down our throats by people who know fuck all about football in the main - that 'Southgate and the team did us proud". I'd argue that the conditions: a very favourable draw, home fixtures for all but one game against a very poor Ukraine, good (and even fortunate) referring decisions, no injuries etc are a combination of factors never to be repeated.

Southgate's conservatism, preferring to set sides up to avoid defeat rather than to win games and his insistence on a 7/3 (at times last night an 8/2) balance between player who are defensive rather than offensive was a mind set that was always going to count at some point. That double pivot of Phillips and Rice, the slowness to bring subs on, the inability to respond to coaching strategies from the other side. The team is exciting and full of potential, but Southgate still has major question marks at the top level. The defeat last night was very similar to the defeat against Croatia 3 three years ago: with a lead being squandered by being sat on rather than built on suggesting he learnt little from it.

Southgate and the players did do England proud, on and off the pitch. He got a lot of tactical calls spot on through the whole tournament including the final, he brought on Saka and Grealish to try and win it with time left. I'm not sure you can do anything about penalties.

 

[cloudyday]

one positive from last night is that Pickford would probably be welcome in any pub on Tyneside for a pint (just the one mind).

tactics, or lack of, to one side, it was ultimately a game of two posts, the one knocking Pickfords save back in play and the one repelling Rashfords daft penalty.

 

[Wilf]

Agree with pretty much all of that regarding the penalty strategy, but they could have gone Kane, Maguire, Sterling, Grealish and Phillips and still lost. It's a lottery and I can't get too worked up about it.

Where I do take issue is with your comment - and one currently being forced down our throats by people who know fuck all about football in the main - that 'Southgate and the team did us proud". I'd argue that the conditions: a very favourable draw, home fixtures for all but one game against a very poor Ukraine, good (and even fortunate) referring decisions, no injuries etc are a combination of factors never to be repeated.

Southgate's conservatism, preferring to set sides up to avoid defeat rather than to win games and his insistence on a 7/3 (at times last night an 8/2) balance between player who are defensive rather than offensive was a mind set that was always going to count at some point. That double pivot of Phillips and Rice, the slowness to bring subs on, the inability to respond to coaching strategies from the other side. The team is exciting and full of potential, but Southgate still has major question marks at the top level. The defeat last night was very similar to the defeat against Croatia 3 three years ago: with a lead being squandered by being sat on rather than built on suggesting he learnt little from it.

I think in a post match hangover I was joining in with the mushy 'done us proud' thing. It's a mixture of things in that he's put himself on the right side of fighting racism, unlike the FA and Premiere League's cynical adoption of 'diversity' and conducted himself well unlike several other England managers. I think I've been watching England's progress as a kind of alternative to the cunts who run the country, which is a form of self deception really, given how corporate football is embedded in neoliberalism. I dunno, a real emotional mess - seeing the Euros as a distraction from the pandemic, whilst the competition has probably been a month long superspreader event.

On the tactics, favourable circumstances, absolutely. It did feel like the Croatia game last night, there was a palpable sense of it drifting away and not enough being done to change things. Particularly the lack of substitutions. Same time, Southgate's approach 'worked', well till about 30 minutes in last night. It was a well executed, but conservative plan.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Kinell

Two tournaments. A semi-final and a final. Only losing the semi-final in extra time, only losing the final on penalties.

Tough crowd.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Kinell

Two tournaments. A semi-final and a final. Only losing the semi-final in extra time, only losing the final on penalties.

Tough crowd.

Yeah, it can appear that way. But what your post overlooks is that we led in both games and appeared in control. But in both games the same two things happened: rather than building on the lead England, presumably under orders, sat on it thereby squandering momentum to the opposition and secondly as the opposition adapted we didn’t.

I’d say an objective crowd is a better description

 

[Ax^]

remember someone saying if this was an irish team they would of been welcomed home almost as if they won the thing

over here not so much

 

[Smokeandsteam]

On the tactics, favourable circumstances, absolutely. It did feel like the Croatia game last night, there was a palpable sense of it drifting away and not enough being done to change things. Particularly the lack of substitutions. Same time, Southgate's approach 'worked', well till about 30 minutes in last night. It was a well executed, but conservative plan.

Precisely, let’s hope that he learns from both games as they are both telling him the same thing. It’s galling to think Sancho, Bellingham, Grealish, Saka, Foden (if not for the final) all feel seriously underused

 

[not-bono-ever]

England shouldn’t be allowed to hold another major competition after the shambles at the stadium last night

 

[Wilf]

remember someone saying if this was an irish team they would of been welcomed home almost as if they won the thing

over here not so much

No idea if there's any kind of celebration event planned for England amid the tatters of the Covid regulations, but they've actually had a very positive response from the country. Don't think it's being overly critical saying his approach might have been a bit too conservative. It's not exactly mocking up a picture of his head as a root vegetable.

 

[rekil]

England shouldn’t be allowed to hold another major competition after the shambles at the stadium last night

What happened?

eta. oh.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's all a bit after-the-fact, though. Italy were a brilliant team throughout the tournament. England held them to the lottery of penalties. Who knows what would have happened with different tactics. Quite possibly Italy winning 3-1.

 

[Sprocket.]

England shouldn’t be allowed to hold another major competition after the shambles at the stadium last night

I think those decisions, sadly, are made depending on how much money is expected to be harvested and sod law and order.

 

[souljacker]

remember someone saying if this was an irish team they would of been welcomed home almost as if they won the thing

over here not so much

We had an open top bus ride when we got knocked out of the semis at Italia 90

 

[editor]

How it unfolded in south London

The hope, the beer and the heartache: England fans watch the Euro 2020 final in south London

 

[editor]

What happened?

Hundreds stormed the stadium and took over people's seats while the stewards did fuck all.