European Elections 2019

[magneze]

I thought that was the Borg. Introducing her as Madonna was quite surprising.

It's possible that I may have posted this in the wrong thread.

 

[stavros]

Vince Cable has just said 'Bollocks to Brexit' on The Andrew Marr Show, Marr wasn't impressed.

I'm not sure bollocks is a swear word anymore. Dimbleby used it many times, quoting Barry Gardiner on QT before Christmas, although admittedly that was at about 11pm

Has anyone had anything through the door from the English Democrats? Based on a double-sided A5 flyer, they don't appear overly open-minded, pledging "independence for England". Independence from what exactly they don't say.

 

[gosub]

Still spoiling my ballot.

 

[Poi E]

The height of satire hearing a British citizen talk about a lack of democracy in European instutitions. A country with an unelected head of state, unelected PM, unelected upper house, no written constitution and risible powers to local or provincial government and non-proportional representation and a crippling caste system in England. FFS, Englandland is a democratic myth.

 

[redsquirrel]

Are you talking about the video? Have you listened to it? Its a load of liberal pro-EU guff, it makes democracy electing someone who then gets to makes choices for you.

And socialists should be attacking the EU as an anti-democratic neo-liberal institution. For all the faults of UK democracy it's still miles more democratic than the EU.

 

[tim]

As you say, you haven't done the maths, and it wouldn't work out as you suggest, and that's ignoring the fact that Kent is not a country.

Two countries voted leave, two countries voted remain, which I believe was Poi E's point.

Kent used to be a country with its own king. There's no reason it can be again. Why should the Jutes continue to suffer under the heel of their tyrannous West Saxon overlords. First Brexit then Kentex!

 

[Mr Retro]

I got this from remainvoter.com yesterday so I’ll be voting for Change UK


“London - Vote Change UK

Current Polling predicts: 3 Remainer seats across two parties.
Smart Voting indicates: We can gain a 4th seat for a third pro-European party.

Lib Dem and Green seats look secure, so RemainVoter.com recommends vote Change UK to gain a 4th Remain seat in London. With Labour being non-committal, this means pro-Brexit parties cannot claim the capital.

We only recommend when the number of Remain seats increase and Leave seats decrease.”

 

[Poi E]

Are you talking about the video? Have you listened to it? Its a load of liberal pro-EU guff, it makes democracy electing someone who then gets to makes choices for you.

And socialists should be attacking the EU as an anti-democratic neo-liberal institution. For all the faults of UK democracy it's still miles more democratic than the EU.

Socialists should be attacking the British state, the founder of all things neoliberal and a criminal organisation.

 

[gosub]

Are you talking about the video? Have you listened to it? Its a load of liberal pro-EU guff, it makes democracy electing someone who then gets to makes choices for you.

And socialists should be attacking the EU as an anti-democratic neo-liberal institution. For all the faults of UK democracy it's still miles more democratic than the EU.

There are problems with both.

HOWEVER

The reforms the EU needs ..what to do about insitutional reform, what to do about the EUro and bankrupt states, what to do about hundreds of thousands of people turning up at the EU'S external border.. being outside Schengen and the EUro the UK''s input would be limited at best.

The bigger problem in regards 'democracy' is a forth estate that never covered EUrope properly, still doesn't...and you can't have transparency or accountability if the main stream media won't hold that particular foot to the flame properly...the best they are prepared to do that for is Westminster

 

[Poi E]

For all the faults of UK democracy it's still miles more democratic than the EU.

Heading into liberalism defending the British state.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I got this from remainvoter.com yesterday so I’ll be voting for Change UK


“London - Vote Change UK

Current Polling predicts: 3 Remainer seats across two parties.
Smart Voting indicates: We can gain a 4th seat for a third pro-European party.

Lib Dem and Green seats look secure, so RemainVoter.com recommends vote Change UK to gain a 4th Remain seat in London. With Labour being non-committal, this means pro-Brexit parties cannot claim the capital.

We only recommend when the number of Remain seats increase and Leave seats decrease.”

They are recommending the same for the south-east, but be fucked if I would ever vote for Chuckle UK.

 

[Poi E]

Nigel gets my vote I'm voting tactically.

 

[Pickman's model]

Kent used to be a country with its own king. There's no reason it can be again. Why should the Jutes continue to suffer under the heel of their tyrannous West Saxon overlords. First Brexit then Kentex!

those are teuchter coins

 

[redsquirrel]

Socialists should be attacking the British state, the founder of all things neoliberal and a criminal organisation.

Oh come on that's far too simplistic a view of neoliberalism. But yes of course they should be attacking the British state that doesn't mean that should not be also be attacking.

Heading into liberalism defending the British state.

Really you are seriously going to try to claim that the EU is not less democratic than the UK? danny la rouge neatly summarises the situation here.

So, no. It is not as democratic as even Westminster. It is a deliberately structured technocratic stitch up, devised to appear like a democracy, but not in any meaningful way being directly accountable to its electorate.

 

[Poi E]

No, of course not. But, until we remove the state a supra-state body will always come into existence. Oh, hopeless old lefty. I don't fucking know.

That said, many Brexiteers must agree with those arguing for Scottish independence that Westminster does not respond to the will of the electorate.

rotten mood as just came off a horribly heated call with a mate in Barnsley who is moving so far to the right it gives me the shits. He used to be Labour.

 

[redsquirrel]

Well I might quibble about 'always' but I agree with the general thrust. But that doesn't mean that labour cannot attack states and capital by the removal/weakening of supra-state bodies. By attacking the EU, WTO, IMF whatever labour is attacking the national state.

 

[Poi E]

After my call I came away with exactly the same feeling as my arch-Farage friend: tear the whole fucking edifice down. Not very helpful, really, being consumed with anger.

 

[gosub]

The height of satire hearing a British citizen talk about a lack of democracy in European instutitions. A country with an unelected head of state, unelected PM, unelected upper house, no written constitution and risible powers to local or provincial government and non-proportional representation and a crippling caste system in England. FFS, Englandland is a democratic myth.

kurzgesagt is based in Munich

 

[Poi E]

Didn't view before my rant.

 

[killer b]

rotten mood as just came off a horribly heated call with a mate in Barnsley who is moving so far to the right it gives me the shits. He used to be Labour.

I know the feeling. My dad was talking about voting Lib Dem the other night too.

 

[Poi E]

short memories eh

 

[cantsin]

really can't be arsed to vote for New Lab Remaniac Adonis ( ffs ) down here, though fellow remainer Claire Moody is alright -

 

[tim]

those are teuchter coins

It's a gold shilling of, the surprisingly hirsute, King Eadbald son of Bertha Kent Queen. If Kent could mint gold 5p's in the seventh century imagine what it could do today if freed

 

[Wilf]

I'm expecting the labour leaflet to have Corbyn's head facing both ways.

 

[Poi E]

Too many who identify primarily as English and not Kentish for independence to happen. Even if it did, irredentist forces at Westminster would quash the brief, glorious moment of independence.

Yorkshire, now there you have a place ripe for independence.

 

[hot air baboon]

the British state surely has a tacit mandate or legitimacy that just accrues over centuries of existence, practice & precedent regardless of the huge inequalities built into its institutions. The EU just doesn't IMO & the lack of consensus on this legitimacy between Remain & Leave is really at the root of the impasse - particularly in Scotland where they are effectively attempting to drop the former for the latter

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm expecting the labour leaflet to have Corbyn's head facing both ways.

As Janus lol. Thats beginnings and transitions as well as duality.

 

[brogdale]

Too many who identify primarily as English and not Kentish

They don't; that's the Saxon hoard West of the Great River.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's a gold shilling of, the surprisingly hirsute, King Eadbald son of Bertha Kent Queen. If Kent could mint gold 5p's in the seventh century imagine what it could do today if freed

it's a gold shilling designed by teuchter

 

[tim]

They don't; that's the Saxon hoard West of the Great River.

Appropriating the horde's hoard would help give the Kingdom of Kent a firm financial footing.