England Cricket 2021

[littlebabyjesus]

A few of England's batsmen need to prove to themselves as much as anything that they can do something in these conditions. If Engalnd could score 250+, I'd take that as a positive.

The game was gone as a contest by the end of play last night.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

I'll settle for England being for 0 or at most 1 by close of play. The game may be gone, but each of those batsmen needs to prove that they can value their wicket and play sensibly on even a spinner's wicket against Ashwin and co. If they get an unplayable one then so be it, but nothing daft - time in the middle is important, and still of the top order only Root is a proven, undroppable certainty with little to prove.

12ish overs left.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

And as soon as I hit post

 

[planetgeli]

Piss poor DRS/umpiring.

Root was 100% out there. That's pissed off Kohli at least.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Do we need to talk about Rory Burns? 23 tests now, average 30, age 30. Is he likely to improve? Was the impression that he got above-average luck in the first year or so of his career correct?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'll settle for England being for 0 or at most 1 by close of play. The game may be gone, but each of those batsmen needs to prove that they can value their wicket and play sensibly on even a spinner's wicket against Ashwin and co. If they get an unplayable one then so be it, but nothing daft - time in the middle is important, and still of the top order only Root is a proven, undroppable certainty with little to prove.

12ish overs left.

That's a bit harsh on Stokes!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Piss poor DRS/umpiring.

Root was 100% out there. That's pissed off Kohli at least.

Umpire's call on impact is a funny one. For hitting the stumps it's fair enough because the tech is predictive and there is a margin of error. But there isn't any margin of error for impact - it's either in line or it isn't, no prediction necessary. They don't say 'oh well it was just a tiny feather' with an edge.

England got a bad one last test as well with Rahane vs Anderson. That was also 100% out.

 

[kabbes]

Do we need to talk about Rory Burns? 23 tests now, average 30, age 30. Is he likely to improve? Was the impression that he got above-average luck in the first year or so of his career correct?

He’s really not great but what’s the alternative? England have had such a paucity of openers since Strauss retired.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

That's a bit harsh on Stokes!

In my head I was talking about the top 4, 5-7 as middle order, 8-9 lower order, 10-11 what's the point

 

[planetgeli]

Do we need to talk about Rory Burns? 23 tests now, average 30, age 30. Is he likely to improve? Was the impression that he got above-average luck in the first year or so of his career correct?

I had a bet with myself after his first test first innings (33) that would be his highest score of the series. He looks terrible. He took a suicidal single off Ashwin (that the fielder fluffed) purely in order to get away from that bowler.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I had a bet with myself after his first test first innings (33) that would be his highest score of the series. He looks terrible. He took a suicidal single off Ashwin (that the fielder fluffed) purely in order to get away from that bowler.

Openers will get lots of low scores. They all do. But are we confident they can stay in and go on to something substantial when they survive the new ball? With Sibley, limited though he is, I think we can say yes. If he's fit, I'd be tempted to bring Crawley back to open with Sibley. Yes, he failed in SL, but we know he's got a touch of class about him. I could see Crawley making a big score in this series. Burns, not so much.

Also, the left/right combo is overrated as a consideration. Nice if you have it, no bother if you don't. Greenidge and Haynes were both right handers. Cook and Strauss were both left.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

He’s really not great but what’s the alternative? England have had such a paucity of openers since Strauss retired.

Burns was good in the ashes
- openers/top 3 really struggled on both sides (Warner anyone?), he was one of a few to emerge with credit. Hasn't kicked on at all though - the only real alternative is Sibley and Crawley to open, with Lawrence sticking at 3 which I don't think is either (a) his natural game or (b) helpful to a young, promising batsman trying to find a rhythm in the side.

Bairstow is another option for 3, but surely that ship has sailed for anything other than subcontinent tours and is a backward step if we're looking ahead to New Zealand and the next Ashes. I don't think I can take the sight of a cart wheeling off stump bowled through the gate again.

Last, even more leftfield alternative would be keeping Foakes, Buttler as a batsman at 6, move Pope up to 3. Everything about Lawrence at 3 applies to that scenario too, not how to get the best out of Pope.

A balanced side needs a top 3 who all play like proper openers, who value balls faced as much as runs. Michael Vaughan played as many innings at 3 & 4 as he did opening. Nasser Hussain never opened for England. Both would be nailed on to open in this team, and we'd still be shoehorning in another of our middle order specialists, watching them come in 2nd ball and wondering why they struggle.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

a) The Ashes was nearly two years ago.

b) That's the series in which Burns was rather lucky. He was dropped a lot.

I dunno.

Re Bairstow, I wouldn't be looking beyond this series for any of the selections. We'll be 1-1 with all to play for in what is still a massive series. Chance to win in India still. Chance of world test champs final still.

As for England's struggles over recent years to find someone to bat at 3, it's a bit of a weird one. Other teams don't seem to have such a problem.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

a) The Ashes was nearly two years ago.

b) That's the series in which Burns was rather lucky. He was dropped a lot.

I dunno.

Re Bairstow, I wouldn't be looking beyond this series for any of the selections. We'll be 1-1 with all to play for in what is still a massive series. Chance to win in India still. Chance of world test champs final still.

As for England's struggles over recent years to find someone to bat at 3, it's a bit of a weird one. Other teams don't seem to have such a problem.

Other teams don't have a problem because they pick their 3 best openers. We barely have 2.

 

[kabbes]

Remember these days?

Trescothick and Cook put England in control Cricket

CRICKET/First Test, England v Sri Lanka: The old and the new flourished in sublime weather as England ground down Sri Lanka …

www.google.co.uk

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook

(And then Pietersen too, for good measure)

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

I almost included Cook alongside Hussain and Vaughan because I had vague memories of his test career starting at 3. Looked up his stats by position though, it was just a handful of innings at the very beginning (and one random no.7, presume injury or a 3rd innings sending the sloggers out first?).

Jonathan Trott would probably be a better example. A specialist no.3, someone you'd trust to come in at 0-1 or 200-1.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Remember these days?

Trescothick and Cook put England in control Cricket

CRICKET/First Test, England v Sri Lanka: The old and the new flourished in sublime weather as England ground down Sri Lanka …

www.google.co.uk

Trescothick
Strauss
Cook

(And then Pietersen too, for good measure)

Tasty Sri Lanka team there too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are lots of ways to bat at 3, mind. Gower batted a fair bit at 3. Ponting batted at 3. As did Lara. And Bradman. Then you have blockers like Dravid or Pujara.

In the end all that really matters is how good you are.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

In the end all that really matters is how good you are.

That is very true. But in the absence of genius waiting in the wings, all I ask is for the top 3 to last 20 overs before expecting Root and Stokes to dig us out of a hole.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

That is very true. But in the absence of genius waiting in the wings, all I ask is for the top 3 to last 20 overs before expecting Root and Stokes to dig us out of a hole.

Burns and Sibley have been pretty good at that tbf. I think that's why Burns is being persevered with really. Obviously they're not perfect and have struggled against spinners on turning pitches but compared to quite a lot of recent efforts they have at least managed to stick it out more often than not, for a little bit at least.

That's damning with faint praise tbf but still.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That is very true. But in the absence of genius waiting in the wings, all I ask is for the top 3 to last 20 overs before expecting Root and Stokes to dig us out of a hole.

Fair enough. Compton's role last time England won in India was a bit underrated on that score, I think. He and Cook saw off the new ball together almost every innings. Made a huge difference with the likes of Pietersen still to come.

 

[planetgeli]

Burns has 78 runs in his last 8 Test innings.

He came into the team completely on the back of flat track bullying on Oval pitches.

He made one good Ashes score of 133 when he was dropped (twice?) early on and played and missed about 47 times.

He can't play spin. When we played West Indies Roston Chase got him out 4 times in 3 games.

Did anyone watching this morning expect him to get to the end of the day?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

When we played West Indies Roston Chase got him out 4 times in 3 games.

Hmmm. That's a damning stat. You really don't want to be Roston Chase's bunny.

 

[planetgeli]

Moeen Ali to leave Test tour despite eight-wicket return

Joe Root confirms that allrounder will miss final two Tests after quarantine-blighted campaign

www.espncricinfo.com

Moeen's going home. And despite Root's protestations, you have to wonder if that's it for him in Test cricket now. Fastest 50 would have been some way to finish.

But really, he's obviously turning down two Tests for which he was probably nailed on to play. Everyone is making the right noises about the bubble and how they don't mind him going, but I suspect different.

Bess probably can't believe his luck.

Burns and Lawrence both look shot.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Is Crawley expected back for the last 2 tests? I'd expect Burns to get a reprieve based on lack of options, with Crawley for Lawrence if available. I've completely lost track of who is in the bubble, so the only other option would be Crawley to open with Sibley and Bairstow at 3 if he's still there.

Lawrence needs another go, probably in a different series, batting at 6. He's got some talent but conditions and basically opening have done him no favours - he and Pope should effectively be auditioning for the same role, with Pope the man in possession but it's not just an 11 man game.

Sibley, Root, Stokes, Foakes, Bess, Leach and Anderson are the guaranteed starters next test. Moeen going home answers the question about playing 3 spinners, not going to happen now - Broad or Woakes to partner Anderson? I suspect (and personally would choose) Broad.

My pick:

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Bess
Broad
Leach
Anderson

 

[Idaho]

Next game is pink ball. We have to play broad and Anderson. Maybe stone too?

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Stone/woakes?
Broad
Leach
Anderson

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Has Archer been ruled out? He'll play if fit won't he.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Archer should definitely play if fit. Anderson also definitely in. After that I guess it will be a case of looking at the pitch. If it's a turning pitch, you're going to want two spinners even under lights.

Do you go with six bowlers (including Stokes) or five? I'd say five, if necessary with two spinners, and Stokes may need to put a bit of a shift in.

 

[Idaho]

Stokes hasn't really bowled or batted enough to justify being factored as a decisive team member. We could really do with a big match from him.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Stokes played a very important innings in the first test.

He hasn't been a factor with the ball, but with the bat, he was crucial in getting England up to a winning first innings score.

In the second test, it has to be said that the entire batting lineup failed. Less than 300 in two innings, nobody passed 50. In fact, nobody passed 50 for the whole match, let alone in one innings.

Moeen Ali was England's top scorer and top wicket taker in the match.