Donald Trump's 2nd term

[phildwyer]

So Trump is a racist, but the Muslim ban wasn't racist in motivation? Islamaphobic then?

No, it was a ban on people from countries deemed likely to produce anti-American terrorism. The ban included people of every religion--Christian, Zoroastrian, Jew--if they were citizens of a banned country.

Furthermore Trump also banned such non-Muslim nations as Venezuela and N. Korea.

And furthermore, Trump encouraged immigration from such Muslim nations as Turkey and S. Arabia.

And thus we see that his bans were motivated by political and security concerns, and not by racism or Islamophobia. They were falsely and maliciously represented as racist and Islamophobic by Trump's political opponents.

And this despite the fact that Trump personally is undoubtedly racist and Islamophobic. It is a bit complicated, but worth persevering.

 

[xenon]

So Donald J Trump is a racist but also he’s not a racist. And he did but also didn’t call for a total and complete shutdown ban on Muslims entering the US. Glad we got this clear.

 

[krtek a houby]

So Donald J Trump is a racist but also he’s not a racist. And he did but also didn’t call for a total and complete shutdown ban on Muslims entering the US. Glad we got this clear.

Only dwyer can call Trump racist. Anyone else and it's smears/deep state/Brits.

 

[phildwyer]

So Donald J Trump is a racist but also he’s not a racist. And he did but also didn’t call for a total and complete shutdown ban on Muslims entering the US. Glad we got this clear.

Yes I know that such fine distinctions elude your feeble mind.

I'll try to think of a parable or something, hang on.

 

[spring-peeper]

That's a ban on immigrants from particular Muslim nations. It's not a ban on Muslims per se. It was misrepresented as such by people seeking to smear Trump as a racist.

You are correct - it was a ban on the countries.

From wiki - Trump travel ban - Wikipedia.

• Executive Order 13769, Protecting the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United States (January 27, 2017) – The original travel ban. Travel ban for people from seven majority-Muslim countries (Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen) for 90 days, with certain exceptions:[10]
  • Also suspended refugee resettlement for 120 days and banned Syrian refugees indefinitely. Lowered cap for refugee admissions for fiscal year 2017 from 110,000 to 50,000.[10]
  • Blocked by Washington v. Trump on Feb. 3, 2017. Trump declined to continue to defend in court.[10]
• Executive Order 13780 (March 6, 2017) – The second and revised travel ban rescinding the original travel ban. Travel ban for people from six majority-Muslim countries (same as above, minus Iraq) for 90 days:[10]
  • This ban exempted those who already have visas and green cards.[10]
  • Also suspended refugee resettlement for 120 days. Lowered cap for refugee admissions for fiscal year 2017 from 110,000 to 50,000.[10]
• Presidential Proclamation 9645 (September 24, 2017) – A third travel ban that replaced the second one. Travel ban for certain nationals of Venezuela, North Korea, and six majority-Muslim countries (five of the countries above, removing Sudan, and adding Chad).[10]
• Executive Order 13815 (October 24, 2017) – Suspended processing and admissions of refugees from North Korea, South Sudan and nine majority-Muslim countries (Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Mali, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen) for at least 90 days while agencies "conducted a review and analysis":[10]
  • Also suspended processing and admissions of family members entering through the follow-to-join process, while agencies added security procedures.[10]
  • After the 90 day review process, the Department of Homeland Security issued a press release that all refugee processing would resume, but additional security measures would be applied to certain countries.[10]
• Presidential Proclamation 9723 (April 10, 2018) – A proclamation removed the travel restrictions on Chad.[10]
• Presidential Proclamation 9983 (January 31, 2020) – An expansion of Presidential Proclamation 9645 to additional countries:[10]
  • Prohibited certain types of immigrant visa entries by certain nationals who did not already have a valid visa.[10]

 

[xenon]

Yes I know that such fine distinctions elude your feeble mind.

I'll try to think of a parable or something, hang on.

These are not find distinctions. They are in fact complete contradictions. You seem to have got lost in your own confection. Which is mildly amusing I suppose.

 

[krtek a houby]

You are correct - it was a ban on the countries.

From wiki - Trump travel ban - Wikipedia.

Muslim majority countries.

It's blatantly obvious what the ban was about and how it pandered to the fears and prejudice of his base.

 

[phildwyer]

These are not find distinctions. They are in fact complete contradictions. You seem to have got lost in your own confection. Which is mildly amusing I suppose.

Bollocks. Sorry if I was excessively rude earlier btw, I think I mistook you for someone else, been a long day....

 

[spring-peeper]

Muslim majority countries.

It's blatantly obvious what the ban was about and how it pandered to the fears and prejudice of his base.

Yes, but that is what Phil has been saying.

He said it was a country ban, and y'all were saying it was a religious ban.

Trump just dressed upthe religion ban by calling it a country ban.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes, but that is what Phil has been saying.

He said it was a country ban, and y'all were saying it was a religious ban.

Trump just dressed upthe religion ban by calling it a country ban.

You've just proved us correct.

 

[spring-peeper]

You've just proved us correct.

how?

eta:

never mind - as long as we all agree the ban was on countries,

/derail

 

[editor]

I hate them both, I just call each issue as I see it. You should give it a try.

You're supporting a racist cunt who openly called for Muslims to be banned from America. You're an embarrassment to these boards.

 

[spring-peeper]

You're supporting a racist cunt who openly called for Muslims to be banned from America. You're an embarrassment to these boards.

I know it is splitting hairs, but it was a country ban that Trump did.

Yes, Trump is a racist, but he used a ban on countries because it was the only option he could use without being accused of being Islamophobic.

By listing countries on his ban list he could allow some of the richer muslims to still enter the country.

 

[xenon]

.

 

[xenon]

I know it is splitting hairs, but it was a country ban that Trump did.

Yes, Trump is a racist, but he used a ban on countries because it was the only option he could use without being accused of being Islamophobic.

By listing countries on his ban list he could allow some of the richer muslims to still enter the country.

It's not hard you know. He literally says in the video a couple of pages back "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." The fact it ended up being a block on range of countries rather than an entire religion doesn't retrospectively change what he called for. This being the thread about Trump, the character, his politics, intentions, desires to forefill in a potential second term, it's kinda core to look at what he actually says.

 

[two sheds]

Ah well if he only shut down immigration from the poor Muslim countries that's definitely not racist.

 

[kebabking]

I blocked Dwyer years ago because he's just a tedious, bad faith twat, and my enjoyment of this place went up enormously.

It's interesting to see the intellectual/political/philosophical journeys people go on over the years, but in his case it's best done both at a distance, and through a visor.

Oh, and with an 'off' button.

 

[mojo pixy]

That's a ban on immigrants from particular Muslim nations. It's not a ban on Muslims per se. It was misrepresented as such by people seeking to smear Trump as a racist.

I didn't say he wasn't racist. Of course he's fucking racist. I don't know why I bother sometimes.

I think you've outdone yourself

No you didn't 'say' trump isn't a racist, but the implication of 'smear' in your earlier post is that you don't believe he is, or at least didn't when you mentioned people 'smearing' him as a racist.


Derp.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

So it seems that the Colorado judge has ruled that Trump engaged in the insurrection, but has also interpreted the clause in amendment 14 (saying those involved in insurrection can't run) because it doesn't specifically mention presidents.

“any office, civil or military, under the United States.

After considering the arguments on both sides, the Court is persuaded that ‘officers of the United States,’ did not include the President of the United States,”

. . . like the people who wrote that clause left that out on purpose. Sheesh.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/17/politics/trump-colorado-ballot-14th-amendment-insurrection/index.html

 

[phildwyer]

You're supporting a racist cunt who openly called for Muslims to be banned from America. You're an embarrassment to these boards.

I'm making a distinction between: (A) What Trump IS, his ideas, personality, conscious intentions etc., and (B) What Trump DOES, the actual and real effects he has in reality and in practice.

Trump (A) is racist and Islamophobic, says he will pass Muslim ban, thus appeals to base, gets elected etc.

But Trump (B) does not pass any Muslim ban. Trump (B) actually encourages Muslim immigration from Turkey and Saudi. He bans people of any religion from enemy countries, including non-Muslim nations like Venezuela and North Korea.

Trump's political enemies deliberately and maliciously misrepresent (B) as (A). Millions of twits are fooled.

Why is this important?

As a precedent predicting the future. Trump (A) wants to make America great again, appeals to base, gets elected etc. But Trump (B) through a combination of vague principle and sheer incompetence actually achieves historic goals of Left, greatly weakens American empire, withdraws from NATO, rescinds NAFTA, ends war in Ukraine, saves world from nuclear apocalypse etc.

But once again, Trump's political enemies etc., millions of twits etc., disaster ensues for humanity etc.

That's the way I see it.

 

[Ax^]

I'm making a distinction between: (A) What Trump IS, his ideas, personality, conscious intentions etc., and (B) What Trump DOES, the actual and real effects he has in reality and in practice.

Trump (A) is racist and Islamophobic, says he will pass Muslim ban, thus appeals to base, gets elected etc.

But Trump (B) does not pass any Muslim ban. Trump (B) actually encourages Muslim immigration from Turkey and Saudi. He bans people of any religion from enemy countries, including non-Muslim nations like Venezuela and North Korea.

Trump's political enemies deliberately and maliciously misrepresent (B) as (A). Millions of twits are fooled.

Why is this important? Apply it to other issues. Trump (A) wants to make America great again, appeals to base, gets elected etc. But Trump (B) through a combination of vague principle and sheer incompetence actually achieves historic goals of Left, greatly weakens American empire, withdraws from NATO, rescinds NAFTA, ends war in Ukraine, saves world from nuclear apocalypse etc.

But once again, Trump's political enemies etc., millions of twits etc., disaster ensues for humanity etc.

That's the way I see it.

 

[krtek a houby]

It's not hard you know. He literally says in the video a couple of pages back "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." The fact it ended up being a block on range of countries rather than an entire religion doesn't retrospectively change what he called for. This being the thread about Trump, the character, his politics, intentions, desires to forefill in a potential second term, it's kinda core to look at what he actually says.

His "shithole countries" comment was a bit of a giveaway when it comes to his racism (outside of Muslim majority countries).

And, infamously, the Mexicans being bad hombres and rapists narrative.

Now why oh why would anyone try to claim he's being "smeared"?

 

[bluescreen]

I'm making a distinction between: (A) What Trump IS, his ideas, personality, conscious intentions etc., and (B) What Trump DOES, the actual and real effects he has in reality and in practice.

Trump (A) is racist and Islamophobic, says he will pass Muslim ban, thus appeals to base, gets elected etc.

But Trump (B) does not pass any Muslim ban. Trump (B) actually encourages Muslim immigration from Turkey and Saudi. He bans people of any religion from enemy countries, including non-Muslim nations like Venezuela and North Korea.

Trump's political enemies deliberately and maliciously misrepresent (B) as (A). Millions of twits are fooled.

Why is this important?

As a precedent predicting the future. Trump (A) wants to make America great again, appeals to base, gets elected etc. But Trump (B) through a combination of vague principle and sheer incompetence actually achieves historic goals of Left, greatly weakens American empire, withdraws from NATO, rescinds NAFTA, ends war in Ukraine, saves world from nuclear apocalypse etc.

But once again, Trump's political enemies etc., millions of twits etc., disaster ensues for humanity etc.

That's the way I see it.

Well, some of that would be nice. I agree there is a gap between what Trump says and what Trump does.
Your conclusion feels a bit wobbly though, tbh.

 

[WouldBe]

I agree there is a gap between what Trump says and what Trumps allowed to do.

FTFY

 

[phildwyer]

Your conclusion feels a bit wobbly though, tbh.

I don't see why. Trump has made it pretty clear that if re-elected he'll withdraw from NATO (thus probably ending it), rescind NAFTA, stop fueling the war in Ukraine and so on. These are (or ought to be) the main political goals of the Left. But the Left is so fixated on Trump (A) that it is incapable of perceiving the opportunity it is being handed by Trump (B).

 

[phildwyer]

His "shithole countries" comment was a bit of a giveaway when it comes to his racism

There was nothing racist about that comment.

 

[phildwyer]

And, infamously, the Mexicans being bad hombres and rapists narrative.

There was nothing racist there either. He didn't say all Mexicans were bad hombres, he said that many of the Mexicans sneaking across the Rio Grande are bad hombres.

These supposedly racist comments are actually good examples of how the MSM twists and distorts Trump's words to smear him.

 

[Elpenor]

There was nothing racist about that comment.

Was he perhaps referring to the different type of toilet associated with those countries?

 

[phildwyer]

There was nothing racist about that comment.

Was he perhaps referring to the different type of toilet associated with those countries?

He was saying that some countries are dreadful places, although they are inhabited by good people. Which is not only true but obviously true.

 

[two sheds]

There was nothing racist there either. He didn't say all Mexicans were bad hombres, he said that many of the Mexicans sneaking across the Rio Grande are bad hombres.

Here's Why Trump's 'Bad Hombres' Comment Was So Offensive

In this case Donald, no se puede.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

"On Wednesday night, when moderator Chris Wallace asked Trump about immigration policy and reform, he began, as he often does, painting undocumented immigrants as violent criminals. (Despite research repeatedly proving native born citizens are more likely to be linked to violent crime than immigrants.) Then the GOP nominee moved on to drugs, drug lords and, again, the need to deport “bad people”:"

Do you have figures that dispute the graph shown in the article referred to there? Because if that's correct then it certainly is racist to pick on Mexicans.

These supposedly racist comments are actually good examples of how the MSM twists and distorts Trump's words to smear him.

It's exactly the same with the "MSM" as you charmingly put it, as opposed say to the far right publications which are admittedly incredibly fair to him, and accusations of misogyny. When he said "grab them by the pussy" he was noting that a lot of women owned cats and if you can just become friends with their cats the women will love you