Do you disapprove of people who are planning an overseas holiday this summer?

[bimble]

Seriously, the problem in the hospitals is currently anti-vaxers. There will come a point when they will need to be triaged home to die.

Do you feel the same way about smokers?

 

[existentialist]

How does it work for people who fail to meet the criteria will they be stopped at the French side of the border and made to go home? or will be it down to the check-in clerk at the ariport or St Pancras Int'l to decide?
Admittedly it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid but the last time I went to France it was on a booze cruise and the only place I showed my passport was the huge booze warehouse in Calais

From the Beeb story, French citizens, their partners and children, legal residents, and EU citizens travelling home through France, won't need an essential reason to travel - but must still abide by all other rules.
Sounds fair in principal but it means French people can come here catch it and take it back with them.

My guess is that they will be turned around at the border and sent home, assuming they're not screened out at the point of departure. The ferry companies are certainly generally pretty hot on making sure all the documentation is in order...IME, more so even than the French border people; I've no idea what Eurostar are like.

And I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of schadenfreude (what is the French for "schadenfreude"? Probably "bof") about this French government decision - the UK has spent the time since the whole Brexit debacle started demonstrating how unreliable and pissy we can be, and in their chaussures, I'd be quite keen to make a particular point about this, even if the decision is based on sound facts, like the fact that we're already a hotbed of Omicron, while France is still at a fairly low level.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Do you feel the same way about smokers?

they are not flooding the hospitals. A lot of elective surgery is denied to obese people that don't make an effort to lose weight.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

What do you reckon will other countries copy France’s lead and ban us or is the French thing personal / fish related to some extent. Seems to me most likely others will follow suit within days.

you mean the result of Boris's "Perfidious Albion" strategy over Brexit...I don't think we can countenance such a thing

 

[DaphneM]

My guess is that they will be turned around at the border and sent home, assuming they're not screened out at the point of departure. The ferry companies are certainly generally pretty hot on making sure all the documentation is in order...IME, more so even than the French border people; I've no idea what Eurostar are like.

And I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of schadenfreude (what is the French for "schadenfreude"? Probably "bof") about this French government decision - the UK has spent the time since the whole Brexit debacle started demonstrating how unreliable and pissy we can be, and in their chaussures, I'd be quite keen to make a particular point about this, even if the decision is based on sound facts, like the fact that we're already a hotbed of Omicron, while France is still at a fairly low level.

Joie maligne or malin plaisir

 

[cupid_stunt]

What do you reckon will other countries copy France’s lead and ban us or is the French thing personal / fish related to some extent. Seems to me most likely others will follow suit within days.

Well considering France were reporting similar case numbers to the UK, until yesterday, despite running under half the tests per million compared to the UK, and omicron is already spreading in Europe, it does seem more like part of Macron's 'bash & Brits' policy/election campaign,

 

[existentialist]

How does it work for people who fail to meet the criteria will they be stopped at the French side of the border and made to go home? or will be it down to the check-in clerk at the ariport or St Pancras Int'l to decide?
Admittedly it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid but the last time I went to France it was on a booze cruise and the only place I showed my passport was the huge booze warehouse in Calais

From the Beeb story, French citizens, their partners and children, legal residents, and EU citizens travelling home through France, won't need an essential reason to travel - but must still abide by all other rules.
Sounds fair in principal but it means French people can come here catch it and take it back with them.

Except that they will need to quarantine on their return to France, unless they have a negative Day 2 test.

 

[killer b]

Fair play, I'd bash us if I was him too.

 

[elbows]

TBF, the problem in the hospitals is currently "people who have not been vaccinated".

How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?

eg: #327

 

[cupid_stunt]

How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?

eg: #327

I know most in hospital are vaccinated, but I am sure there's been reports of most in ITC are unvaccinated, is that right?

 

[existentialist]

How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?

eg: #327

Yes, OK - I was focusing on the semantics of the statement I responded to, rather than the numbers. But I could have been a little more careful...

 

[Thora]

My work colleague is driving to Poland for Christmas today - seeing elderly parents and family for the first time in two years. They need to drive through France & Germany on the way. I really hope they make it.

 

[elbows]

I know most in hospital are vaccinated, but I am sure there's been reports of most in ITC are unvaccinated, is that right?

People that should know keep saying that yes, but I havent been able to find the right data for myself in regards intensive care vaccine status. And there was a slightly different agenda compared to whats now coming into play when some of them kept saying it in the press months and weeks ago. I do have death figures, and when thinking about serious illness we have to consider both deaths and intensive care, since some people arent deemed suitable for intensive care. Likewise plenty of unvaccinated people are younger and are intensive care candidates, so what you have heard about that might still have truth to it even when other measurements such as general hospitalisation and death point in the other direction.

Given the properties of Omicron and what it seems to do to vaccine protection, I'll also need data on who had 3rd doses/boosters in this data in future, in order to even begin to make proper sense of it.

All of this was expected anyway, and some authority figures pointed that out well in advance of it becoming the case. Its just the inevitable consequence of the basic maths involving the very high proportion of the population that are vaccinated, and the below 100% protection offered.

 

[elbows]

Israel will designate the UK and Denmark as countries on its Covid-19 “red list” at midnight due to concern over the spread of the Omicron variant.

Israeli citizens and permanent residents are forbidden from travelling to “red” countries from Israel, unless they get permission from the government.

Travellers returning from a “red” country are be taken to a publicly-funded quarantine facility on arrival and must stay there until they receive a negative PCR test result. They may then complete their seven days of isolation at home.

France, Spain, Ireland, Finland, Sweden and the United Arab Emirates are expected to be added to the red list on Sunday. Most African nations are already on it.

Thats from the BBC live updates page, 15:41 entry https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59679703

 

[bimble]

How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?

eg: #327

someone made a diagram that really helped me with this the other day. Two circles, one vaccinated people one much smaller unvaxxed population, the hospitalised a third circle overlapping them both , Bisecting the unvaxxed significantly and only a small corner of the vaccinated - you can see easily then how it works, even if you’re not good with numbers and probability like me.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

My work colleague is driving to Poland for Christmas today - seeing elderly parents and family for the first time in two years. They need to drive through France & Germany on the way. I really hope they make it.

They will, rules are coming in for arrivals at Midnight (23:00 GMT) tomorrow.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Well considering France were reporting similar case numbers to the UK, until yesterday, despite running under half the tests per million compared to the UK, and omicron is already spreading in Europe, it does seem more like part of Macron's 'bash & Brits' policy/election campaign,

I have a feeling there will be a retaliation in kind which would more than likely scupper my shitemas plan.

 

[8ball]

Bloody French, reacting dickishly to our dickishness...

 

[scifisam]

they are not flooding the hospitals. A lot of elective surgery is denied to obese people that don't make an effort to lose weight.

Not for moral reasons, though, for clinical reasons to do with anaesthetics and recovery from surgery.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Not for moral reasons, though, for clinical reasons to do with anaesthetics and recovery from surgery.

With limited ventilators, the triage process will presumably mean someone will have to decide on the criteria to get one. I’m not sure how moral it is to delay people’s cancer surgery to free up ICU beds for anti-vaxers.

I’m not as heartless as I sound, but I think society has a right to prioritise people who have done their best to maximise their chances of survival.

Here in Latin America I people have genuine concerns about being left on the street to die if they get sick with this. Vaccine hesitancy seems to be a first world problem. Send excess doses to Africa where they would be appreciated

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Unfortunately the NHS is tending towards a Latin American model under the Tories.

 

[krtek a houby]

well yes, this thread is about overseas holidays

Have you ditched the van and Great Dane?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Eurostar booking collapsing into uselessness in front of my eyes ffs

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

And just checked the French governement website and there has been another update today, isolation on arrival is now 10 days, can be lifted after 48 hours with proof of (yet another) PCR or LFT, and where am I gonna get one on Christmas day
I was only planning to be there for 84 hours

guess it's time to call my mum :[

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

So, finally got through to my mum, and I won't be going.
Then the bit about "I'll never see you again before I die", except she is 82 and a lot more active than me and will more than likely outlive me.
She did have a good rant about "their" incompetence and how she is going to sue them for depriving her of her liberties, I think she is turning into a rebel in her old age.
Now to cancel/get vouchers for my eurostar bookings, at least I can stop stressing.

 

[MickiQ]

She did have a good rant about "their" incompetence and how she is going to sue them for depriving her of her liberties, I think she is turning into a rebel in her old age.

Go for it wemakeyousoundb 's Mum

 

[bimble]

Vaccine hesitancy seems to be a first world problem. Send excess doses to Africa where they would be appreciated

That’s very much not the case at all. Sadly. It’s a huge issue all over the place. But that’s for another thread.

I note that there are reports of huge queues at Dover as thousands of people tried to get to France today.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

That’s very much not the case at all. Sadly. It’s a huge issue all over the place. But that’s for another thread.

Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)

 

[bimble]

Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)

yep, interesting about brazil, but thats very much an outlier. I only know in any detail about a couple of specific places but very rough overview in here for instance The Next Challenge to Vaccinating Africa: Overcoming Skepticism

Vaccine hesitancy big threat for India, says top vaccine maker SII

Indian states are sitting on more than 200 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines due to a reluctance among people to get inoculated, the chief executive of top vaccine maker the Serum Institute of India (SII) said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Yossarian]

Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)

There's a lot of hesitancy in east Asia - people who don't trust their governments often don't trust vaccination campaigns - and people who don't trust China don't trust the Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines.

In the Philippines, American evangelical Christian groups have had some success spreading anti-vax shit - and in Indonesia, a lot of people believe most vaccines are not halal, though the country's top religious authority has said otherwise.

Opinion | What’s behind Southeast Asia’s hesitancy towards China-made vaccines?

Beijing has supplied 190 million doses of its home-grown inoculations to the region, but public perceptions towards Sinovac and Sinopharm are negative.

www.scmp.com

Concerns Rise Over Indonesia’s Sputtering Virus Vaccinations

Vaccine hesitancy in the predominantly Muslim country can be traced to apprehensions that shots other than the Chinese-made Sinovac are not “halal.”

thediplomat.com