Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

I think humans by their very nature over empathise , and have always find the killing of animals at some level problematic, otherwise we wouldn't have all the ritual we see around slaughter, or indeed the psychic toll on slaughterhouse workers. The modern consumer doesn't have to worry about this, the trauma is taken on elsewhere. I don't see the end of capitalism meaning the end of industrialised production of food, but given wages would disappear what would be the motive to spend all day killing animals?

Humans have created rituals over various significant phases of life, death and birth. Without particular details it doesn't seem very convincing. The one in many cultures where a boy transitions to a man with his first kill of a dangerous animal doesn't fit very well, but I'll confess 'availability bias' there. Re: slaughterhouse workers - yeah, combining the face to face with industrialisation in killing isn't good psychologically. We've also managed to make indoor work in climate-controlled offices psychologically intolerable for many, though, so our gift for turning things to shit seems quite flexible.

I see what you mean about modern slaughterhouses not keeping going without the wages, but it raises the question of who is going to spend all day picking fruit for no money.

 

[8ball]

..I won't accept the Brexiter answer of "Bulgarians", by the way.

 

[Spymaster]

I thought we'd agreed on not over-extrapolating from small samples.

I did consider that and thought about qualifying it with "most U75 vegans", but given that even the previously sensible Jeff Robinson has started talking about animal murder I thought, fuck it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think humans by their very nature over empathise , and have always find the killing of animals at some level problematic, otherwise we wouldn't have all the ritual we see around slaughter, or indeed the psychic toll on slaughterhouse workers. The modern consumer doesn't have to worry about this, the trauma is taken on elsewhere. I don't see the end of capitalism meaning the end of industrialised production of food, but given wages would disappear what would be the motive to spend all day killing animals?

are you really that unimaginative?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think humans by their very nature over empathise , and have always find the killing of animals at some level problematic, otherwise we wouldn't have all the ritual we see around slaughter, or indeed the psychic toll on slaughterhouse workers. T

That's an interesting point about rituals. And it's a good thing not to take killing lightly, something that our present industrialised system certainly doesn't recognise.

 

[8ball]

Do you actually adhere to 'meat is murder'? Surely not.

i know I'd feel pretty bad about myself if millions of murders were happening right in front of me and all I did in defense of the innocent victims was tut about it and decline to partake.

 

[Spymaster]

i know I'd feel pretty bad about myself if millions of murders were happening right in front of me and all I did in defense of the innocent victims was tut about it and decline to partake.

Which is why it's bollocks and they know it.

 

[Mr. Jelly]

are you really that unimaginative?

Generally yes.

 

[Mr. Jelly]

lack of B12

 

[8ball]

Which is why it's bollocks and they know it.

I always figured it was a bit like "property is theft" or some Zen sayings in that it needs a little unpacking.

 

[8ball]

lack of B12

Marmite.

 

[Spymaster]

I always figured it was a bit like "property is theft" or some Zen sayings in that it needs a little unpacking.

As a silly slogan for shouting on demos you can see where it's come from but it's when they roll it into an actual argument that it becomes idiotic and obviously disingenuous, like this:

...meat is murder, animals that once alive were killed/murdered to make meat ...

It's just an unconvincingly stupid attempt to redefine the word which nobody over the age of 5 could possibly buy.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Jeff Robinson has started talking about animal murder

No I haven't. Not once.

 

[8ball]

It's just an unconvincingly stupid attempt to redefine the term which nobody over the age of 5 could possibly buy.

It was a very quick Google, but the oldest thing I can find on it is a quote (paraphrased) that has been attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
It looks possibly apocryphal. It's also possible it was more along the lines of "fishing is unprovoked murder".

But as Abraham Lincoln said, you can never be sure of the veracity of quotes on the internet.

 

[Spymaster]

No I haven't. Not once.

Fair enough. I seemed to recall you doing so and me being quite shocked at it coming from you.

If I've done you a disservice, I apologise.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Marmite.

Eat your own poop or take a vit b12 tablet.

Or nutritional yeast.

Yay. B12 options.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Fair enough. I seemed to recall you doing so and me being quite shocked at it coming from you.

If I've done you a disservice, I apologise.

Judgemental non vegans playing judge and jury. Tsk tsk tsk

 

[Spymaster]

Judgemental non vegans playing judge and jury. Tsk tsk tsk

You seem to be replying to a different post to the one that you’re quoting. It looks to be a common problem on this thread.

 

[not-bono-ever]

If god had wanted us to be vegetarian , why did he make animals out of meat ?

 

[Watermelon Man]

If god had wanted us to be vegetarian , why did he make animals out of meat ?

That's what I don't understand about you pre vegans. Meat is meat right? Humans are meat. Dogs. Cats. Foxes. Rats. All meat... So why do you only eat certain animals?

Your nan and chicken taste the same.

Why do you eat certain dead animals and not others?

 

[not-bono-ever]

I have been a vegi for longer than you have been alive I would warrant bludz

 

[Watermelon Man]

You seem to be replying to a different post to the one that you’re quoting. It looks to be a common problem on this thread.

There you go again...judging.. smh.

 

[Watermelon Man]

I have been a vegi for longer than you have been alive I would warrant bludz

Vegetarian?

 

[not-bono-ever]

yes, vegan didn't work because of the drinking issues for me. i.e. it was a ball ache to get leathered and stay true. and the various milk substitutes didn't work in coffee. the food was great though

 

[mojo pixy]

Your nan and chicken taste the same.

I bet they don't.

 

[Spymaster]

Why do you eat certain dead animals and not others?

Because some taste better than others. There's also the availability issue and some meat eaters feel greater sentimentality towards some animals than others. Personally I'd eat any meat that I liked, could afford, wasn't endangered or someone's pet (ddraig - take note), and was available.

 

[Watermelon Man]

yes, vegan didn't work because of the drinking issues for me. i.e. it was a ball ache to get leathered and stay true. and the various milk substitutes didn't work in coffee. the food was great though

Some booze isn't vegetarian. Not sure about what is/isn't. Think its fish guts in some drinks...sounds grim. Are you arsed to check or not?

 

[Spymaster]

Some booze isn't vegetarian. Not sure about what is/isn't.

Isinglass. It's collagen obtained from the swim bladders of fish. Used to give clarity to wine and beer.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Because some taste better than others. There's also the availability issue and some meat eaters feel greater sentimentality towards some animals than others. Personally I'd eat any meat that I liked, could afford, wasn't endangered or someone's pet (ddraig - take note), and was available.

There are ways around the taste issue. Sausages etc.. take away the seasonng /spices/ flavouring etc and I bet it's quite a bad taste.

I understand the sentimental argument but suggest it's more to do with a lifetime of programming.

The availability thing is questionable. Not sure where you live but here in London there's loads of pigeons, rats, squirrels, and a fair few foxes. But dead animal eaters don't seem to want to take advantage. Free meat.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Isinglass. It's collagen obtained from the swim bladders of fish. Used to give clarity to wine and beer.

Sounds grim.