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'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

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However for a lot of young people who are just getting politically involved this may be one of the first sources of "alternative" politics they come into contact with.

Exactly. Thats the only reason I paid so much attention to the conspiracy theorists in recent years, we cannot afford to write off people whose politics and sense of fairness may actually be pointing in the right direction, and is simply obscured and misguided by a range of things. If they've been seduced by dangerous explanations and 'solutions' then we have to figure out how to undo that, not just give up. For at the moment there are not very many dramatic tests, moments of truth where they will be called to make political decisions or stand up and be counted. But that may change one day and the more we've practiced how to appeal to their decency and loftiest ideals and steer them away from the dodgy shit the better.
 
<edit cos it was stupid>If you don't vaccinate your kids, it makes you a super super extreme cunt who has no right to any form of freedom or decision making IMO.

The fact is that some people CANNOT have vaccinations, for whatever reasons, they are allergic, etc etc. These people rely on others having the vaccination in order not to die.

Imagine there is a kid in the class who is allergic to vaccines (child A), and another whose idoit parents have chosen not to immunise (child B); child B will pass on whatever disease to child A therefore compromising child A.

If child A happens to die, the parents of child B should be locked up for manslaughter.

These people are cunts of the highest order. And no I do not "respect their choice". You can run this herd immunity simulator here: http://www.software3d.com/Home/Vax/Immunity.php

Here's a nice condescending video on exactly why anti-vaxxers are demonstrably cunts and idiots.


Legally you are trampling all over the most fundamental principles of common law and medical ethics here.

The principle is "the body is inviolate". This means you cannot go injecting needles into people without their consent, however much good you think it will do them, or however unintelligent you consider them.

There is absolutely no justification in law for forcing a potentially harmful medical treatment onto one person so that someone else may benefit.
 
Legally you are trampling all over the most fundamental principles of common law and medical ethics here.

The principle is "the body is inviolate". This means you cannot go injecting needles into people without their consent, however much good you think it will do them, or however unintelligent you consider them.

There is absolutely no justification in law for forcing a potentially harmful medical treatment onto one person so that someone else may benefit.

He is not trampling over anything he is saying your pseudo-science shouldn't be given airspace or the time of day. Without the guff the likes of you promote there would be no anti-vaccinationists.
 
Legally you are trampling all over the most fundamental principles of common law and medical ethics here.

The principle is "the body is inviolate". This means you cannot go injecting needles into people without their consent, however much good you think it will do them, or however unintelligent you consider them.

There is absolutely no justification in law for forcing a potentially harmful medical treatment onto one person so that someone else may benefit.
Yeah there is. Mental health act. Not applicable here though.
 
He is not trampling over anything he is saying your pseudo-science shouldn't be given airspace or the time of day.

no, I'm afraid that FLB was very clearly saying that no-one should have the right to refuse vaccinations, and that refusal to vaccinate should leave people open to criminal convictions.
 
He may well be (I never picked up on the libertarian stuff btw), still, the video very accurately shows why herd immunisation is important. Stopped clock, once a day, etc etc.

It also kind of fits into the starting point of the thread, being that a small margin of the left seems to be well "conspiracy theory" like, homing in on these idoit fallacies. "It's BIG PHARMA" "Its the evil BANKING JOOOOOOZ", and seems to have quite a noisy voice, which is then exploited by right wing cunts that go "AHAHAHAHA LOOK AT THESE SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST DOLTS... "

(the right do the same with climate change denial ... ironic innit.)

I went down to occupy at the beginning, and towards the end, and by the end of it it was fucking EMBARRASSING. I had to run away (I think most sensible people did).
Hang on a minute, you were the one accusing people of bullying Jazzz on the other thread just yesterday, when people were pointing out his anti-semitism.

The reason so many of us criticise Jazzz over his shit is precisely because they do infect things like Occupy.
 
Hang on a minute, you were the one accusing people of bullying Jazzz on the other thread just yesterday, when people were pointing out his anti-semitism.
And if FLB doesn't believe some 'conspiracy' stuff (for want of better phrase) he must also believe all of it anti-semitic? Because any attack on something you don't like is fair? :rolleyes:
 
1927.jpg
“Who is Adolf Hitler? The man from the people, for the people! The German front soldier who risked his life in 48 battles for Germany!​
What does Adolf Hitler want? Freedom and food for every decent working German! The gallows for profiteers, black marketeers and exploiters, regardless of religious faith or race!​
Why is Adolf Hitler not allowed to speak? Because he is ruthless in uncovering the rulers of the German economy, the international bank Jews and their lackeys, the Democrats, Marxists, Jesuits, and Free Masons!​
Because he wants to free the workers from the domination of big money!​
Working Germans! Demand the lifting of the illegal ban on his speaking!​
 
In ancient days we see him carrying on his business in the trading centers of the Mediterranean. In the Middle Ages he provided money for German nobles and free cities. Today he rules the banks and stock exchanges of the whole world, forcing the nations under the yoke of financial capitalism. The power of this people of 15 million rests on these international relations.

does this sound familiar to you? if it does, that's probably because it is. mystical bollocks about the middle ages linked to today. you've spent so much time on this over the years Jazzz, do you not realise the provenance of this stuff?

They build hate against the awakening peoples with all the resources at their disposal. They depend most heavily, as we have shown, on world Bolshevism and world democracy. With ice-cold, devilish calculation, they unleashed a new world war that they hoped would defeat the national-authoritarian nations. After defeating these nations, the way would once again be open to establish [...] domination of the remaining nations.
 
Hang on a minute, you were the one accusing people of bullying Jazzz on the other thread just yesterday, when people were pointing out his anti-semitism.

The reason so many of us criticise Jazzz over his shit is precisely because they do infect things like Occupy.

Fair enough. I totally get the criticism. It seems to be infecting plenty of my friends more sensible faculties too. My point on that thread was it's not what you say but how you say it. And you'll remember that I criticised both sides. It wasn't the content I was criticising, it was the tone of the thread... You aint never gonna win over opinions when putting an argument across like a holier-than-thou twat (not you, just people generally). Remember, loads of people read the boards, so actually opinions are formed not just on the content, but how that content is put across.

People poison their own wells by adopting such an attacking tone, and makes other people reading (not just the recipient of the reply) less liekly to listen. I understand that people get tired repeating the same old shit, and that it's frustrating and annoying, but anyone can view these boards and plenty of lurkers base their decisions and ideas on the viewpoints put across here. Aggression is really unhelpful. You aint never gonna win Jazz over, you will never change his mind, so when people write responses they should really be thinking of the anonymous readers who will be taking it all in. THAT was my problem.

And if FLB doesn't believe some 'conspiracy' stuff (for want of better phrase) he must also believe all of it anti-semitic? Because any attack on something you don't like is fair? :rolleyes:

What are you talking about?

Banking "joooooz" is clearly anti Semitic. My mum's Hungarian - the stuff she comes out with is shocking, and she's generally a very nice lady. I tell her off about it, and say stuff like "mum... don't you think it's a bit more complex than that", and you know what - she fucking concedes, sometimes, but I take my victories where I find them.

So Jazz, tbh what you say is nothing new, it's nothing revolutionary and I've heard it all before. It's a deeply ingrained part of a paranoid aspect Eastern European culture (which has suffered war after war), with myth passed down form Babcia to Babcia.

The difference between my mum and you is that your conviction is unshakable. It doesn't matter what people say to you, YOU KNOW. It's a shame but it seems to me that your ability to trust anyone or to be even a little open minded anything has disappeared. You just never seem to concede. I don't think you're a twat Jazz, but your seemingly unshakable belief is really frustrating. For alot of people talking to you about any of this is like trying to talk to a fundamentalist Christian.

That's the worst part about this conspiracy stuff IMO. Is that it shuts down critical faculties and turns otherwise decent people who I think do have a soft heart, and do want the best for humanity turn into paranoid, defensive blame seekers.

It's a real fucking shame tbh.
 
Well if somebody mentions "banking jews" as part of a theory don't you think there's something wrong with what they're saying?
 
Fair enough. I totally get the criticism. It seems to be infecting plenty of my friends more sensible faculties too. My point on that thread was it's not what you say but how you say it. And you'll remember that I criticised both sides. It wasn't the content I was criticising, it was the tone of the thread... You aint never gonna win over opinions when putting an argument across like a holier-than-thou twat (not you, just people generally). Remember, loads of people read the boards, so actually opinions are formed not just on the content, but how that content is put across.

People poison their own wells by adopting such an attacking tone, and makes other people reading (not just the recipient of the reply) less liekly to listen. I understand that people get tired repeating the same old shit, and that it's frustrating and annoying, but anyone can view these boards and plenty of lurkers base their decisions and ideas on the viewpoints put across here. Aggression is really unhelpful. You aint never gonna win Jazz over, you will never change his mind, so when people write responses they should really be thinking of the anonymous readers who will be taking it all in. THAT was my problem.
Well I don't think people really were being all that aggressive/rude to Jazzz. Sihhi for example certainly wasn't.

I do accept your wider point to a certain extent, but as on the feminism thread I think you're going too far.
 
Well I don't think people really were being all that aggressive/rude to Jazzz. Sihhi for example certainly wasn't.

of course they weren't, sihhi was extremely polite. however i think sometimes people dont get how strong and visceral reactions to things like anti-semitism, homophobia, sexism, racism can be if they've never experienced it themselves or had loved ones who have, therefore it looks like bullying to them even though it's not bullying, it's a perfectly reasonable response because the deliberate promotion of this stuff under the guise of some sort of learned theory about society should never ever be tolerated.
 
He may well be (I never picked up on the libertarian stuff btw), still, the video very accurately shows why herd immunisation is important. Stopped clock, once a day, etc etc.

It also kind of fits into the starting point of the thread, being that a small margin of the left seems to be well "conspiracy theory" like, homing in on these idoit fallacies. "It's BIG PHARMA" "Its the evil BANKING JOOOOOOZ", and seems to have quite a noisy voice, which is then exploited by right wing cunts that go "AHAHAHAHA LOOK AT THESE SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST DOLTS... "

(the right do the same with climate change denial ... ironic innit.)

I went down to occupy at the beginning, and towards the end, and by the end of it it was fucking EMBARRASSING. I had to run away (I think most sensible people did).
I don't think that this is a left thing in any way, shape or form. Some of the language may sound leftist, and arguably it's where a lot of the anti-imperialists have ended up, or where those who would have been anti-imperialist go these days, but it is primarily a right-libertarian pursuit.

And they're mostly climate change deniers too. Like the rest of the hard right. It's not one of Jazzz's hobby horses but a lot of them also bang out climate conspiracy, eg Alex Jones.
 
Well I don't think people really were being all that aggressive/rude to Jazzz. Sihhi for example certainly wasn't.

I do accept your wider point to a certain extent, but as on the feminism thread I think you're going too far.
Part of the problem here is that responding as if he has been attacked, rather than merely disagreed with, seems to be a fairly standard part of Jazzz 's debating repertoire.

And the beauty of that technique is that it is very good at becoming a self fulfilling prophesy: there is little as irritating as being accused of attacking someone when you haven't, and nothing quite so contemptible as the eager victim...
 
This thread got bumped?


My loon mate unfreinded me last night for pointing out that land owners, hoarding reservoirs full of water in drought areas are fucking selfish arseholes.

Cue unfriending. I actually think she's got mental health problems. Bare paranoid about everything, loads of cognitive dissonance. I'll paste up the transcript later.
 
Pulitzer Prize winner endorses Icke on Radio 4. Weird.

And now : "Woolwich False Flag Bullshit - Masses are in a trance" on Icke's website
 
In Psypag Special issue: The psychology of conspiracy theories

A couple of years old with some interesting papers.

I doubt they foresaw a US Presidential candidate would be peddling a fistful of Alt Right conspiracy theories he probably privately thinks laughable very successfully to an excited main stream audience. People have had enough of experts and appear hungry for any old bullshit that confirms their prejudices.
 
I think politics has become the battle ground for the application of the heuristics and biases understanding of the last couple of decades. Unfortunately it is the dark side, the knee jerk, the irrational, which is being used most effectively.
 
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