'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

[Johnny Canuck3]

Consider that only the day before, September 10th, Rumsfeld had had to admit that $2.3 TRILLION had vanished from the Pentagon's accounts (normally that news would have been released on a Friday to best bury it, instead it came on the Monday)

I'll bet there's some sort of link-up here, but it's escaping me at the moment...

 

[Jazzz]

magic wings?

wtf do you expect to happen when the centre of a plane stops suddenly because it's smashed into a wall, while the engines on the plane want to keep going because they've not yet hit the wall? The engines are attached to the wings, which in turn are attached at one end to the plane, and at the other to nothing, therefore the engines momentum will pivot them around the point where the wings join the plane, meaning the engines would be expected to swing in towards the middle front of the plane before hitting the wall.

no magic involved

.

 

[Jazzz]

Wrong, as usual. 184 of the 189 people who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon were identified, which means a minimum of 59 were from the passengers.

And that contradicts my statement how exactly?

Feel free to explain how their DNA and tissue got to the scene if not by the aircraft which smashed into building at high speed. Thanks.

You have to develop a more critical mind editor. The bodies were not analysed at the scene. My point was that an alternative explanation to them being planted was that they were simply introduced along the way to the laboratory.

 

[editor]

And that contradicts my statement how exactly?

You have to develop a more critical mind editor. The bodies were not analysed at the scene. My point was that an alternative explanation to them being planted was that they were simply introduced along the way to the laboratory.

Right - so without a single scrap of proof to back any of this insane batshit up - you're suggesting that the plane vanished off the radar without anyone noticing, and was somehow replaced by a missile pretending to be a plane without anyone noticing that either (including all the eye witnesses who failed to notice anything wrong).

Meanwhile, the passengers were landed at some secret airport and were taken off and all murdered, and then torn apart, charred, shredded and spiced with fuel, with the grisly remains invisibly shipped into the forensics lab without anyone noticing, while the the remainder of the 60 bodies (and all their belongings and, presumably, the entire plane) were then magically vanished off the face of the earth?

That is one sick fantasy. Actually, it's worse than that. It's obscene.

 

[Jazzz]

This response belies a total ignorance of the facts surrounding flight 77.

Right - so without a single scrap of proof to back any of this insane batshit up - you're suggesting that the plane vanished off the radar without anyone noticing,

You are assuming that flight 77 had a continuous radar track. Well of course, that's what you would expect. In fact flight 77 DID vanish off the radar, and air traffic control CERTAINLY noticed.

This alone should call into question the whole official theory.

What is fascinating, and somewhat amusing, is to see you assuming facts which align with your theory, and then throwing your mistaken assumptions at me as if they are true when they are completely mistaken.

and was somehow replaced by a missile pretending to be a plane without anyone noticing that either (including all the eye witnesses who failed to notice anything wrong).

A great many eyewitnesses failed to spot a plane. We've been over that many times. The initial reports were of a bomb.

April Gallop, who was tens of feet from the impact hole is currenly suing Rumsfeld and Cheney:

"I didn't know it was a plane until I was informed at the hospital. If I wasn't informed I would have never believed it. I walked through that place to try to get out before everything collapsed on us . . . surely we should have seen something" source

Meanwhile, the passengers were landed at some secret airport and were taken off and all murdered, and then torn apart, charred, shredded and spiced with fuel, with the grisly remains invisibly shipped into the forensics lab without anyone noticing, while the the remainder of the 60 bodies (and all their belongings and, presumably, the entire plane) were then magically vanished off the face of the earth?

That is one sick fantasy. Actually, it's worse than that. It's obscene.

It IS sick. However, ignoring your obvious exaggerations, it's far from an impossible fantasy, unlike the official story. The trouble is, we cannot conceive of our leaders arranging such a thing, because we wouldn't do it.

However, they would. Really.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

A great many eyewitnesses failed to spot a plane. (

http://www.dothetest.co.uk/

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

A car travelling 60 mph covers 88 feet per second.

A jet homing in on the Pentagon at, let's say, 400 mph, covers around 550 feet per second.

Don't forget: they weren't intending on 'landing' per se, so the aircraft wouldn't be approaching at landing speed: it would be approaching at flight speed.

If you aren't looking in exactly the right place at the right time, you won't see it.

If you blink at the wrong time, you won't see it.

 

[phildwyer]

The initial reports were of a bomb.

This is true, I remember it well.

There were also reports of car bombs going off all over Manhattan. Never heard anything more of them after 9/11 itself.

 

[editor]

It IS sick. However, ignoring your obvious exaggerations, it's far from an impossible fantasy, unlike the official story. The trouble is, we cannot conceive of our leaders arranging such a thing, because we wouldn't do it.

However, they would. Really.

I'd like you to explain the exaxt route by which the body parts supposedly got to the forensics lab, in some case mere hours after the crash, please.

I want you to detail where the real plane went and how it was vanished off the face of the earth, and I want you to explain the process by which the passengers were slaughtered en masse, and then methodically torn apart, shredded, burnt and sliced by Evil CIA Operatives, and then their body parts somehow slipped into the forensics lab without a single soul noticing anything amiss.

And I'd like you to explain what happened to the plane, the pilots and crew and the substantial amount of body parts after because no one seems to have seen anything of them.

I can't imagine how many people would need to be involved in such a fast-track slaughter'n'maim/cover-up and sneak-in operation, but considering the tight time span and the logistics involved, you're no doubt accusing hundreds of people of being involved in such a dreadful crime.

The fact that you haven't a single scrap of credible evidence to support your vile, groundless accusations of mass murder and ghoulish body mutilation really sums up how sick your conspiracy fantasies have become. Where do you get off on making up these stories?

 

[claphamboy]

The fact that you haven't a single scrap of credible evidence to support your vile, groundless accusations of mass murder and ghoulish body mutilation really sums up how sick your conspiracy fantasies have become. Where do you get off on making up these stories?

You think this is sick?

At least 911 in all the past, so his delusions here are not dangerous to life, over on the swine flu thread he’s posted a link to prison planet in an attempt to scare pregnant women by trying to link miscarriages to the vaccine, despite there being no evidence whatsoever.

He would prefer pregnant women and their babies to die from swine flu - he’s a fucking disgrace to the human race.

 

[phildwyer]

he’s a fucking disgrace to the human race.

Claphamboy. Even if you believe this (and I think you do), can't you see that you're harming your case by saying it?

Look at this from the perspective of someone who doesn't really know the details and hasn't really made up his mind--I'm such a person myself. When I read threads like this, I see Jazzz: obviously an intelligent, well-read bloke who sincerely believes what he says, expresses himself without abusing his opponents or losing his temper, and is prepared to stand up for his beliefs in the face of raging tirades of abuse.

People are likely to admire such a person.

On the other side, we see Yahoos like 8den, who clearly have no education in or knowledge of politics or history, who are functionally illiterate, who are driven into a rage when they encounter unfamiliar ideas, and who express themselves almost entirely in four-letter words.

Now, which side is someone undecided more likely to believe?

In fact, you are the only denialist who strikes me as having the first idea what they're talking about. So when you join in the crowing, gloating know-nothingism that charaterizes the majority of your side, you do your cause no favors at all.

This debate has already convinced me that the conspiracy theories about 9/11, which I'd previously dismissed out of hand, bear further investigation. I supsect that I'm not alone. So please, for the sake of your beliefs, tone it down.

 

[editor]

This debate has already convinced me that the conspiracy theories about 9/11, which I'd previously dismissed out of hand, bear further investigation. I supsect that I'm not alone. So please, for the sake of your beliefs, tone it down.

Stop this trolling now please, dwyer. And yes, this is an official warning.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Stop this trolling now please, dwyer. And yes, this is an official warning.

Have you officially warned 8den for his ongoing swearathon?

 

[editor]

Have you officially warned 8den for his ongoing swearathon?

I have asked him to stop several times even though no one has actually reported him.

At least he has a genuine interest in the discussion, even if his language can be offensive.

 

[ViolentPanda]

nah, youve lost it now dwyer, question is can you make a successful fighting retreat or are you going to keep digging a hole

Surely you mean "strategic withdrawal"?

 

[ViolentPanda]

And you, Pickman's, are an ex-public schoolboy who joined Class War.

Which tells us all we need to know about you really.

No, Pickman's Model attended an approved (by HMIP, naturally) school. You're mixing him up with the former Urbanite known as "Old Stoic", or possibly with The Black Hand, who has probably believed that he went to a public school at least once during one of his delusions.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Your problem is that you just don't know when to give up.

A failing that has caused him more problems than just on this bulletin board.

 

[claphamboy]

Claphamboy. Even if you believe this (and I think you do), can't you see that you're harming your case by saying it?.

Not at all, I think 90%+ of people would agree that spreading misinformation suggesting a link between miscarriages and the swine flu vaccine, potentially putting pregnant women and their babies at risk of death, in an attempt to prove delusional beliefs that there’s a conspiracy behind the vaccine is about as low as anyone can get.

Make no mistake, he’s a cunt.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I have asked him to stop several times even though no one has actually reported him.

At least he has a genuine interest in the discussion, even if his language can be offensive.

Thanks for the reply. Did anyone happen to report Phil Dwyer?

 

[kyser_soze]

Look at this from the perspective of someone who doesn't really know the details and hasn't really made up his mind--I'm such a person myself. When I read threads like this, I see Jazzz: obviously an intelligent, well-read bloke who sincerely believes what he says, expresses himself without abusing his opponents or losing his temper, and is prepared to stand up for his beliefs in the face of raging tirades of abuse.

Yeah, just like Nick Griffin on Question Time. Altho you should have said 'widely read' rather than 'well read', as that implies some kind of discernment in choice of reading materials, as opposed to Prison Planet, whale.to etc etc.

 

[William of Walworth]

Yesterday I found an 'interesting' fact about '9/11'

The day before, there was a meeting of members of the Magnum Photos Agency in New York.

This meant that there was a much larger than usual number of their photographers around the City on '9/11', there on hand to take many iconic on the spot pictures of the Twin Towers .....

Coincidence?

'9/11' troofers will no doubt think not. Because nothing ever just happens to happen ... does it?? <--conspiracist 'logic'

 

[kyser_soze]

Yesterday I found an 'interesting' fact about '9/11'

The day before, there was a meeting of members of the Magnum Photos Agency in New York.

This meant that there was a much larger than usual number of their photographers around the City on '9/11', there on hand to take many iconic on the spot pictures of the Twin Towers .....

Coincidence?

'9/11' troofers will no doubt think not. Because nothing ever just happens to happen ... does it?? <--conspiracist 'logic'

It's that vaccine Will. You're not part of the conspiracy

 

[Fedayn]

This debate has already convinced me that the conspiracy theories about 9/11, which I'd previously dismissed out of hand, bear further investigation. I supsect that I'm not alone. So please, for the sake of your beliefs, tone it down.

No surprise given your own belief in whispered-in-the-ear AIDS denialism.

 

[claphamboy]

It's that vaccine Will. You're not part of the conspiracy

Just a victim of it.

 

[William of Walworth]

As for dwyer, it looks like I missed an episode of sustained trolling last night that was spectacularly self destructive and utterly, self-pwningly transparent, even by his standards.

Dwyers flailing around on this thread really is a sight to behold.

phils got a novel take on what to do when you've dug yourself into a huge hole, he's aware enough of the problem to stop digging downwards, instead he randomly strikes out sideways, regardless of the obvious danger of unsupported horizontal tunnels collapsing on the person digging them.

Consensus is not necessarily a bad word ...

This debate has already convinced me that the conspiracy theories about 9/11, which I'd previously dismissed out of hand, bear further investigation. I supsect that I'm not alone.

No surprise given your own belief in whispered-in-the-ear AIDS denialism.

He doesn't genuinely believe a word of either, they're both deliberately contrived 'contrarian'-positions for maximum trolling effect. Good on you for using the word 'denialism' in its correct context though.

 

[William of Walworth]

It's that vaccine Will. You're not part of the conspiracy

The vaccine conspiracy to turn conspiracy sceptics into conspiracy theorists you mean?

Could be working already!! ....

You never know dwyer I could be switching to 'your side' before long. Be warned though that among other vaccine side effects attacks of trollitis incompetentis have been reported ....

 

[William of Walworth]

OK shutting up now re trolling , given that yer main man's been officially warned.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

You think this is sick?

At least 911 in all the past, so his delusions here are not dangerous to life, over on the swine flu thread he’s posted a link to prison planet in an attempt to scare pregnant women by trying to link miscarriages to the vaccine, despite there being no evidence whatsoever.

He would prefer pregnant women and their babies to die from swine flu - he’s a fucking disgrace to the human race.

Note: (not especially to claphamboy)

The current pandemic is not a "swine flu" pandemic. H1N1 is a combination of Swine, Avian and other flus. The constant description of the virus as "swine flu" is simplistic and misleading disinformation.

 

[phildwyer]

Stop this trolling now please, dwyer. And yes, this is an official warning.

So just to clarify: am I now banned from this thread completely?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

So just to clarify: am I now banned from this thread completely?

He asked you to stop trolling the thread.

The fact you take this as meaning you can't post on it at all speaks volumes