'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

[elbows]

Get with the whakery of this "loon". Perhaps some self appointed urbanites can swear about him to aid credibility of their case. Very effective ploy that one.

Thats a cold war speech that appeals to the press to help defeat the Soviets by being relatively open. The stuff at the start about secret societies is an attempt to highlight the US tradition of disliking secrecy, to demonstrate that such a mistrust of secrecy is part of the American way, a way that will help defeat the Soviets. Its propaganda, which is not to say its completely untrue, for the best propaganda is often truth.

I dont think you will find many people who deny that secret socieites have existed in the past and continue to exist today. What you will find is a large amount of skepticism about how much power such societies possess in the modern age. Personally I feel the reality is likely rather complex, when people come togethr in the open or in secret they gain some power, but the world aint no comic book.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Cheers for that link Paul.

Sooner you than me for the task of monitoring 9/11 discussion sites and the like though. Quite apart from Justin's post, the general wildness and barminess of the content of posts all over that site (I've dipped my toe in before) would be a severe trial to the patience of anyone who isn't a fully paid up '9/11-troof' obsessive.

Conspiracists in general, 9/11 troofers in particular, with the way they talk and post all over their sites, do a pretty effective job of alienating anyone who's not predisposed to believe them.

That's why the word 'cult' is right on the button, and that's why the Greens shouldn't have anything to do with the 9/11 crowd if they (the Greens) are halfway sensible. Shane's always been perfectly sensible and sane on most other stuff, I speculate? that he's despaired at times at the sheer counterproductiveness of some of his fellow 9/11-ers ... at least I hope he has!

There are times when I wonder what the hell I'm doing battling through all this nonsense. Ultimately though, and I and others do it, because this shit, when uncontrolled is dangerous.

Firstly because we have to criticise Blair, Bush, Brown etc for what they have done, not for what they have not.

Secondly because we cannot allow radical, progressive political currents to be taken over by ideas that will further isolate us, take us even further from the mass of the people, and make us look even more stupid (Something the left is good enough at doing anyway)

Thirdly because the far-right use the conspiracy mind set as a trojan horse. Five minutes on the David Icke forum, and the succession of racist and anti-semitic ideas presented, is enough to see the dangers inherent.

Fourthly, we have a specific task here in the UK to rebut 7/7 conspiracy theories, which are potentially hugely damaging for our community relations. I would not dream, as a white English person, of saying there is no such thing as racism, that different racial and religious groups are not attacked in the UK - they plainly are.
What 'truth' activists have not grasped is how disastrous it is when we see British Muslims like Dr Mohammed Nassem of Birmingham Central mosque standing up and saying no Brits were involved in 7/7, and distributing DVD's saying Israel did it etc etc How long until we see that footage used on a BNP election broadcast?

Its an on-going struggle, but threads like this are worthwhile. If not, 'truth' activism goes unanswered.....

 

[trevhagl]

getting near the end of Richard Tomlinson's book, blimey they don't like people writing books do they? They turned his house over, turned his parents house over, turned his employers place over, and even sent the Australian old bill in to arrest his prospective publisher.

They jailed him for 2 years, stopped him getting bail despite him putting his & parents house up as surety, and sent him to Cat A along with murderers etc!

Clapham Boy will be along in a minute to say all that's perfectly reasonable (or made up)

 

[kyser_soze]

you won't be satisfied because you already know the truth - any conclusion reached, no matter the extent and quality of the evidence presented, would have to confirm what you already 'know', and anything that didn't conform to this would be rejected as untruth.

This again is typical cod pschology and supposition. besides which, I dont know the truth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you need to look at your prose style and think about how you phrase things.

 

[claphamboy]

getting near the end of Richard Tomlinson's book, blimey they don't like people writing books do they? They turned his house over, turned his parents house over, turned his employers place over, and even sent the Australian old bill in to arrest his prospective publisher.

They jailed him for 2 years, stopped him getting bail despite him putting his & parents house up as surety, and sent him to Cat A along with murderers etc!

Clapham Boy will be along in a minute to say all that's perfectly reasonable (or made up)

What's this got to do with this thread?

BTW, he was only sentenced to 1 year and was released after 5-6 months.

 

[William of Walworth]

There are times when I wonder what the hell I'm doing battling through all this nonsense. Ultimately though, and I and others do it, because this shit, when uncontrolled is dangerous.

Firstly because we have to criticise Blair, Bush, Brown etc for what they have done, not for what they have not.

Secondly because we cannot allow radical, progressive political currents to be taken over by ideas that will further isolate us, take us even further from the mass of the people, and make us look even more stupid (Something the left is good enough at doing anyway)

Thirdly because the far-right use the conspiracy mind set as a trojan horse. Five minutes on the David Icke forum, and the succession of racist and anti-semitic ideas presented, is enough to see the dangers inherent.

Fourthly, we have a specific task here in the UK to rebut 7/7 conspiracy theories, which are potentially hugely damaging for our community relations. I would not dream, as a white English person, of saying there is no such thing as racism, that different racial and religious groups are not attacked in the UK - they plainly are.
What 'truth' activists have not grasped is how disastrous it is when we see British Muslims like Dr Mohammed Nassem of Birmingham Central mosque standing up and saying no Brits were involved in 7/7, and distributing DVD's saying Israel did it etc etc How long until we see that footage used on a BNP election broadcast?

Its an on-going struggle, but threads like this are worthwhile. If not, 'truth' activism goes unanswered.....

Excellent post, cheers ...

 

[trevhagl]

What's this got to do with this thread?

BTW, he was only sentenced to 1 year and was released after 5-6 months.

I was thinking that it ties in with your love for the establishment

 

[8den]

KZ

as a candidacy it already had stack of credibility, didn't it?

The US is one place where non duopoly parties have even worse chance than here. High status "successful" "3rd party" campaigns are pretty rare. I think she stands good comparrison to Nader as a credible candidate for USGP.

I'm glad you put "3rd party" in commas there. Suggesting the green party candidate would get more than a single percentage of the overall vote is nonsense. You'd be more likely to smell a fart in a hurricane.

Her 9/11 nuttery should be seen as a yardstick for the true level of support her claims have. 0.12%? And yet truthers claim they have something 35% support. Idiots.

 

[claphamboy]

I was thinking that it ties in with your love for the establishment

I don't have any love for the establishment, you thick twat.

Isn’t it about time you got over this ridiculous idea that anyone that doesn’t agree with your inane crazy rumblings is automatically an establishment supporter?

FFS get a grip man.

 

[8den]

I was thinking that it ties in with your love for the establishment

Don't you get tried retreading the same old tired cliched accusations against those who disagree with you?

 

[William of Walworth]

I was thinking that it ties in with your love for the establishment

I don't have any love for the establishment, you thick twat.

Isn’t it about time you got over this ridiculous idea that anyone that doesn’t agree with your inane crazy rumblings is automatically an establishment supporter?

FFS get a grip man.

Don't you get tired retreading the same old tired cliched accusations against those who disagree with you?

Seconded. Sort it out trev -- you're not really as thick as that sort of post suggests.

 

[ViolentPanda]

getting near the end of Richard Tomlinson's book, blimey they don't like people writing books do they? They turned his house over, turned his parents house over, turned his employers place over, and even sent the Australian old bill in to arrest his prospective publisher.

They jailed him for 2 years, stopped him getting bail despite him putting his & parents house up as surety, and sent him to Cat A along with murderers etc!

Clapham Boy will be along in a minute to say all that's perfectly reasonable (or made up)

Tomlinson freely admits to signing the OSA in his autobiography, doesn't he?
He signed a contract saying that he'd keep his work secret, and he broke that contract. It's not like he was naive about the possibility of being nicked and imprisoned, Trev, and people who breach the OSA know what they're in for, if they've bothered to read the Act.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Ditto David Shayler.

The "I joined the security services and they are not very progressive, do nasty things and I want to tell the world about it" line hardly deserves too much sympathy in my book.........

What do they expect?

 

[claphamboy]

Ditto David Shayler.

The "I joined the security services and they are not very progressive, do nasty things and I want to tell the world about it" line hardly deserves too much sympathy in my book.........

What do they expect?

Lots of publicity, so they can sell more books.

 

[8den]

Ditto David Shayler.

The "I joined the security services and they are not very progressive, do nasty things and I want to tell the world about it" line hardly deserves too much sympathy in my book.........

What do they expect?

Isn't he calling himself Diane now? Or something...

 

[trevhagl]

Tomlinson freely admits to signing the OSA in his autobiography, doesn't he?
He signed a contract saying that he'd keep his work secret, and he broke that contract. It's not like he was naive about the possibility of being nicked and imprisoned, Trev, and people who breach the OSA know what they're in for, if they've bothered to read the Act.

they came to an agreement with him too, and broke it. They also refused to let him go to an employment tribunal, something no other employer could get away with

 

[trevhagl]

Isn't he calling himself Diane now? Or something...

might have to!! Once ya upset em you gotta go to great lengths i bet!

 

[trevhagl]

Don't you get tried retreading the same old tired cliched accusations against those who disagree with you?

well i mustn't cos i'm always on here aren't i!!

ha ha.

 

[8den]

well i mustn't cos i'm always on here aren't i!!

ha ha.

And As Bearla Please?

 

[claphamboy]

Isn't he calling himself Diane now? Or something...

He's also claiming to be the son of God too.

might have to!! Once ya upset em you gotta go to great lengths i bet!

He's a fucking fruitloon, make no mistake.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Isn't he calling himself Diane now? Or something...

David Shayler is now Delores.

His legs are fabulous by the way.

 

[Badger Kitten]

His top needs a wash, however.

 

[Badger Kitten]

He has now got some better wigs

 

[claphamboy]

He has now got some better wigs

From that link;

And no, I haven’t had a breakdown

No?

As the Christ, I’m the begotten of Jesus the Father and Gaia, the divine mother and goddess of love and sexuality. She does not incarnate into this world. I’m therefore the closest you will get to an incarnation of Gaia also known as the Magdalene.

People forget that God has a sense of humour – making his chosen one a tranny must be the biggest joke of all time.

[my ex-girlfriend Annie ] I’ve seen very little of her and not at all this year so she really is in no position to judge my mental state.

We are, you're a total fucking loon.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I'm glad you put "3rd party" in commas there. Suggesting the green party candidate would get more than a single percentage of the overall vote is nonsense. You'd be more likely to smell a fart in a hurricane.

Her 9/11 nuttery should be seen as a yardstick for the true level of support her claims have. 0.12%? And yet truthers claim they have something 35% support. Idiots.

I put "3rd party" that way because Constitutionalists and Libertarians could make an equal claim and it is how non Dumbo/Repugs are reffered to.

The fact that 3rd candidates invariably score very badly is not a reflection on the credibility of their case but on the highly corrupt duopoly cartel nature of the US system and how their voting works. I have no idea whether you think corruption and lack of choice is a good thing, but sneering at credible small parties just because they are small plays into the hands of the status quo.

Oh, have you managed to figure out that microwave weapons actually exist yet?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Shayler is said to have "lost it" after a highly psychotic drugs episode. Just like Icke. Funny old world.

 

[ymu]

David Shayler is now Delores.

His legs are fabulous by the way.

Dolores. And he's been using that name and cross-dressing for years. Not a sex change, not a name change - just a load of bigoted tabloid nonsense.

He's a very strange man, don't get me wrong, but it's a bit bollocks to have a go at him for being a cross-dresser when there's plenty of legitimate lines of attack.

 

[smokedout]

Dolores. And he's been using that name and cross-dressing for years. Not a sex change, not a name change - just a load of bigoted tabloid nonsense.

He's a very strange man, don't get me wrong, but it's a bit bollocks to have a go at him for being a cross-dresser when there's plenty of legitimate lines of attack.

get over yourself, no-ones had a go at him for being a cross dresser

and his legs arent bad

 

[claphamboy]

Dolores. And he's been using that name and cross-dressing for years. Not a sex change, not a name change - just a load of bigoted tabloid nonsense.

He's a very strange man, don't get me wrong, but it's a bit bollocks to have a go at him for being a cross-dresser when there's plenty of legitimate lines of attack.

Has anyone had a go at him for being a cross-dresser?

 

[chazegee]

Dolores. And he's been using that name and cross-dressing for years. Not a sex change, not a name change - just a load of bigoted tabloid nonsense.

He's a very strange man, don't get me wrong, but it's a bit bollocks to have a go at him for being a cross-dresser when there's plenty of legitimate lines of attack.

Stella Rimmington was on the radio recently saying that being a spy drives you crazy.