'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

[William of Walworth]

Plant.

 

[Beanburger]

BB I think you're (inadvertantly?) backing up dwer's misdefinitions of and smears about conspiracy-sceptics when you make the bolded point.

I'm not sure how we're defining "conspiracy sceptics". I'm a conspiraloon sceptic. Is that the same thing?

 

[editor]

Which is a bit childish to say the least, because no one seems to deny any of that nor disagree that murder was possible, so this has failed to prove your case of ‘conspiracy denialists’ on urban.

So, where are these “pathological conspiracy denialists" and examples of “irrational scepticism” that you keep banging on about, apart from in your head?

Isn’t it time to stop wriggling, prove your claim or drop it?

Absolutely.

It's time dwyer either named names or apologised for his offensive behaviour and his unpleasant habit of throwing around disgraceful insults about mental health.

 

[phildwyer]

Absolutely.

It's time dwyer either named names or apologised for his offensive behaviour and his unpleasant habit of throwing around disgraceful insults about mental health.

Last time I named a name you became even angrier.

It's the same name I'd name again.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

It's better to play the ball than the man. Not naming names can be a part of that. Bringing up "mental imbalance" can be tricky, but the title itself contains the word "loon" which is synonymous with a degree of mental imbalance even if it is in "".

People offend each other all the time on urban, and use inappropriate terms in doing so. Cant confess to have followed every post but is there a special reason why PD should be singled out?

 

[editor]

Last time I named a name you became even angrier.

It's the same name I'd name again.

You claimed there were "plentiful" people suffering from mental illness, yet you've only come up with just one name - and that's the same person you've subjected to a deeply unpleasant campaign of bullying for months on end - and someone who clearly shows no sign of being a "pathological conspiracy denialist."

Face it dwyer: you've made yourself look an absolute cunt here, throwing around playground taunts of mental illness just because people don't agree with you and wriggling like a slithery snake in a vat of oil every time you get pulled up on your idiotic insults.

It's really not been your finest hour.

 

[editor]

People offend each other all the time on urban, and use inappropriate terms in doing so. Cant confess to have followed every post but is there a special reason why PD should be singled out?

Because it forms the central tenet of his argument, and he has peppered this thread with such accusations.

 

[trevhagl]

I think he was murdered as well and for fucks sake this is exactly what I mean, because of bonkers shit that the likes of Icke and Alex Jones put out perfectly plausible theories with evidence in support of them get tarred with the same brush, and it gets used as a smear for ALL things that are slightly opposed to the government's view

everyone should just cut and paste that comment each time an establishment whore pops up...

 

[phildwyer]

Face it dwyer: you've made yourself look an absolute cunt here, throwing around playground taunts of mental illness just because people don't agree with you

O rly?

There's never enough evidence to satisfy lunatic conspiracy nuts

If I had a penny for every time our conspiracy denialists had called their opponents mentally ill, I'd be Robert Maxwell.

 

[editor]

If I had a penny for every time our conspiracy denialists had called their opponents mentally ill, I'd be Robert Maxwell.

No you wouldn't, but what's another lie from our resident wriggler, eh?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Because it forms the central tenet of his argument, and he has peppered this thread with such accusations.

I wont defend concerted and needless attacks on individuals that you cite PD as guilty of. However, some degree of "mental inbalance" is often levelled at anyone who questions official versions of events beyond a certain point.

I've been called all sorts of such inappropriate names down the years and I am far from a knee-jerk CTer.

As I said before, a central tenet of the anti CT case is a cod psychology analysis that CTers NEED to believe CTs because they CANT HANDLE reality.

It is a vapid argument, not least because the opposite could just as well stand up - that anti CTers NEED to reject them ASAP because they CANT HANDLE the implications if at least some of them had substance.

So, these accusations fly around and it aint helpful, but it would be a mistake to think it was one sided.

 

[trevhagl]

Tomlinson was writing his book PRIOR to Diana's death and changed the story so he could cash in on the crash and sell more copies to mugs like you.

There was NO evidence and NO reliable witnesses to back-up the ‘bright-light’ fairy-tail, yet there was plenty of evidence and witnesses to the contrary – how many more fucking times does this need repeating before it sinks into your thick head?



Operation Paget Report page 763



Operation Paget Report page 762

Tomlinson made up the bit about the plan to bump off Milosevic, to fit in with the same thing happening to Diana? NOW who's the theorist!!!

How do you know the witness was NOT RELIABLE - you know him personally?

 

[claphamboy]

If I had a penny for every time our conspiracy denialists had called their opponents mentally ill, I'd be Robert Maxwell.

But, there are no 'conspiracy denialists' here, as now proved by your inability to name anyone or supply any supporting evidence.

 

[phildwyer]

No you wouldn't

Actually you're right. I'd be Rupert Murdoch:

As for Ickey-bollocks and swine flu, only a terminal nutbobbin in fruitloop undies gives a flying noggin what that fucknut says about anything.

 

[claphamboy]

Tomlinson made up the bit about the plan to bump off Milosevic, to fit in with the same thing happening to Diana? NOW who's the theorist!!!

The evidence is there in both the changes to the manuscripts of his book pre and post the death of Diana, which he didn't deny to the inquiry and in his statement "I came out of prison I was strongly embittered towards MI6 and certainly wanted to cause them embarrassment and difficulty."

How do you know the witness was NOT RELIABLE - you know him personally?

How many more fucking times do I need to post this, which you keep ignoring?

The detail of eyewitness testimony was thoroughly reviewed and Operation Paget officers succeeded in uncovering two new witnesses. The police found that only one eyewitness at the scene of the crash, François Levistre, made a clear, specific reference to seeing a bright flash. He claimed to have seen it in his rear-view mirror and recounted other elements of what he saw in considerable detail while he was negotiating the difficult bend out of the tunnel, a task which would have required his full attention on the road in front of him. Crucially, however, his testimony was directly contradicted by his then-wife, who sat in the passenger seat next to him. Television documentaries produced by Channel 4 in 2004 and the BBC in 2006 both raised the issue of Levistre's prior criminal record for offences involving dishonesty.

In any event, the detailed crash reconstruction revealed that the chain of events that led to the car unavoidably colliding with the pillar started well before it was at the mouth of the tunnel where the flash is alleged to have been discharged. Furthermore, a strobe light of the type that was alleged to have been used is so powerful that a flash emitted from it would have been bright enough to illuminate a very wide area. It would have likely blinded not only Henri Paul, but also the driver of the white Fiat Uno, the pursuing paparazzi and witnesses standing at the road side. The Operation Paget report concluded the alleged flash did not happen.[

 

[William of Walworth]

I'm not sure how we're defining "conspiracy sceptics". I'm a conspiraloon sceptic. Is that the same thing?

In effect ....

I just tend to use conspiracy sceptic, or conspiracy theory sceptic, because it's a bit politer. Or anti conspiracist.

 

[Beanburger]

As I said before, a central tenet of the anti CT case is a cod psychology analysis that CTers NEED to believe CTs because they CANT HANDLE reality.

Says who?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Oh dear Ed. I bet that's just one example.

 

[William of Walworth]

I think he was murdered as well and for fucks sake this is exactly what I mean, because of bonkers shit that the likes of Icke and Alex Jones put out perfectly plausible theories with evidence in support of them get tarred with the same brush, and it gets used as a smear for ALL things that are slightly opposed to the government's view

everyone should just cut and paste that comment each time an establishment whore pops up...

Maybe you'd be better off taking on froggy's central point that so many conspiracy theories are crazy (and discredit the others), than labelling sceptics of CTs as 'establishment whores'

Just a suggestion like

 

[trevhagl]

The evidence is there in both the changes to the manuscripts of his book pre and post the death of Diana, which he didn't deny to the inquiry and in his statement "I came out of prison I was strongly embittered towards MI6 and certainly wanted to cause them embarrassment and difficulty."



How many more fucking times do I need to post this, which you keep ignoring?

the picture of the tunnel in other thread shows it is well lit. i don't think a flashlight would be visible outside, but we could argue forever. You think the establishment would never do anything wrong, i beg to differ.

 

[trevhagl]

Maybe you'd be better off taking on froggy's central point that so many conspiracy theories are crazy (and discredit the others), than labelling sceptics of CTs as 'establushment whores'

Just a suggestion like

I only label people that if they spend hours going out of their way to try to prove the establishment had nothing to do with suspicious deaths. I am not saying lizards are gonna control the earth.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Says who?

Google "conspiracy theory psychology". It's a pretty standard case.

 

[claphamboy]

the picture of the tunnel in other thread shows it is well lit. i don't think a flashlight would be visible outside, but we could argue forever.

TBF, it's what all the experts think, what the reliable witnesses saw and what the other evidence supports that matters here, not what you think based on reading a book of fiction.

You think the establishment would never do anything wrong, i beg to differ.

No, I don't, you fucking stupid, lying, ignorance little fuckwit.

 

[William of Walworth]

If I had a penny for every time our conspiracy denialists had called their opponents mentally ill, I'd be Robert Maxwell.

But, there are no 'conspiracy denialists'here, as now proved by your inability to name anyone or supply any supporting evidence.

It's a completely made up term on dwyer's part.

Part of his ongoing troll-effort to smear conspiracy-sceptics as as evidence defying and rationality-avoiding as global warming denialists**

**(or AIDS denialists )

While rarely criticising**, and never citing, the out and out irrationality of so many conspiracy theories.

**Except (very occasionally) in a token 'false equivalence'/'just as bad' fashion, to attack his real targets

 

[Beanburger]

It's a completely made up term on dwyer's part.

Part of his ongoing troll-effort to smear conspiracy-sceptics as as evidence defying and rationality-avoiding as global warming denialists**

**(or AIDS denialists )

While rarely criticising**, and never citing, the out and out irrationality of so many conspiracy theories.

**Except (very occasionally) in a token 'false equivalence'/'just as bad' fashion, to attack his real targets

Thought as much.

 

[claphamboy]

I only label people that if they spend hours going out of their way to try to prove the establishment had nothing to do with suspicious deaths. I am not saying lizards are gonna control the earth.

What is this now, the fourth or fifth time you have posted this bollocks claim?

Look, if it takes you more than a few seconds to google something and a few minutes to use the 'Ctrl+F' function on a web page or PDF to find something, that is evidence of you being a simpleton, not that others spend 'hours' doing it.

 

[William of Walworth]

I wont defend concerted and needless attacks on individuals that you cite PD as guilty of. However, some degree of "mental inbalance" is often levelled at anyone who questions official versions of events beyond a certain point.

I've been called all sorts of such inappropriate names down the years and I am far from a knee-jerk CTer.

As I said before, a central tenet of the anti CT case is a cod psychology analysis that CTers NEED to believe CTs because they CANT HANDLE reality.

It is a vapid argument, not least because the opposite could just as well stand up - that anti CTers NEED to reject them ASAP because they CANT HANDLE the implications if at least some of them had substance.

So, these accusations fly around and it aint helpful, but it would be a mistake to think it was one sided.

I very rarely use the term 'conspiraloon' any more, haven't done for ages (I prefer 'conspiracist'). And I can't remember the last time I accused a CTer on here of being bonkers in person. But I do think it's worth remembering that suggesting an actual theory is, or looks, crazy or bonkers or irrational, is not necessarily the same as saying the person advancing it is off their trolley.

(Mind you I do think Icke has plenty of 'connection with reality' issues ).

My point being that I agree suggestions of pathological problems, obsessiveness, etc along with their hints of borderline or actual mental illness, as applied to people, are hardly helpful in these discussions. But in this particular present thread, such accusations have come not so much against CTers but predominantly from the other direction, from one particular poster as part of his current 'campaign'.

 

[trevhagl]

What is this now, the fourth or fifth time you have posted this bollocks claim?

Look, if it takes you more than a few seconds to google something and a few minutes to use the 'Ctrl+F' function on a web page or PDF to find something, that is evidence of you being a simpleton, not that others spend 'hours' doing it.

it's your life boy!! Your duty to Queen and Country !!

 

[editor]

Actually you're right. I'd be Rupert Murdoch:

Sorry, are you posting that context-stripped quote of mine to suggest that Icke's claim that swine flu really was a conspiracy to 'cull' the population is actually true?

Or is this just another example of your tedious habit of switching topics as you continue to wriggle and flounder about, making a fresh arse of yourself at every turn?

 

[claphamboy]

This message is unreadable due to static levels because trevhagl is just why too far out in the twatosphere.