Census 2021

[brogdale]

is this you, brogdale ?
View attachment 256457

 

[brogdale]

 

[Orang Utan]

 

[brogdale]

A - I believe that is about paper based forms, hence the push towards a digital first census (Scotland and NI are apparently not prepared for a fully digital census yet, which is why their versions are delayed, nothing to do with Covid, surprisingly)

B - whether this is about paper or not, there certainly is a drive from the right to cancel the census, they hate it for reasons that are nothing to do with arms companies or privacy. It is bizarre and counter-productive for those who oppose their attempts to extend the market further and further to support them in destroying the census.

No, in 2008 Counting the population questioned the very notion of a conventional 2021 Census and looked toward a more integrated, register based system of collating demographic data.

 

[Cerv]

Interestingly the 1937 Soviet census revealed that the population was 18 million lower than claimed, and 10 million lower than official death records suggested, presumably due to famine etc.

Stalin wasn't happy and promptly executed a number of the prominent statisticians involved.

reducing the population further could hardly have helped with his problem

 

[belboid]

It's because your claim was laughable.

There it is again.

No, in 2008 Counting the population questioned the very notion of a conventional 2021 Census and looked toward a more integrated, register based system of collating demographic data.

that's the one where they recommended ID cards. You sure you wanna quote that as being in your favour?

(i mentioned it earlier, its where they talk about a 'population register')

 

[brogdale]

There it is again.

that's the one where they recommended ID cards. You sure you wanna quote that as being in your favour?

(i mentioned it earlier, its where they talk about a 'population register')

The point in question is not whether or not I am “favoured” by any particular form of state data gathering, but what the neoliberal state itself wants.

It seems that during the last Labour government there was a view that dynamic data collection methodologies could replace the decadal static, snapshot censal exercise.

 

[brogdale]

Lets hope you're a straight white man with no particular needs that are generally ill met by the state.

If there was any validity to such a crass observation, the logic would appear to suggest that the best way to effect improved state service provision would be by persuading large numbers of “straight while men with no particular needs” not to return their census forms.

 

[belboid]

The point in question is not whether or not I am “favoured” by any particular form of state data gathering, but what the neoliberal state itself wants..

It seems like the point is for you not to bother reading the links you post. Seems to be a bit of a habit with you. Anyway, you carry on, I’m sure you’re impressing yourself.

 

[brogdale]

It seems like the point is for you not to bother reading the links you post. Seems to be a bit of a habit with you. Anyway, you carry on, I’m sure you’re impressing yourself.

Odd response.

I'm not returning any census return because I'm unwilling to engage with a neoliberal state exercise engaging and enriching US defence corporations.

Beyond that, I'm happy to engage on this thread about any aspect of Census related matters and will challenge stuff that appears ill-thought through. Up to you whether or not you want to.

 

[brogdale]

So...I've been having a look at how the decision to go ahead with this census during the pandemic will impact folk like my very elderly, shielding parents.

Seems like they'll:
1. Get a letter offering them a code for online or a phone number to ring for paper.

• They're not picking up/opening all mail now
• If they do, they're likely to mis-place/forget/ignore
• Same for paper version if they did get round to ringing for one

2. They'll get a reminder letter?

• see above

3. An Adecco recruited fieldworker will call at their door to offer "assisted digital" entry

• I encourage them not to answer the door unless they know who it is
• but, supposing they do answer, the fieldworker proposes to enter their data at 2m distance from their doorstep
• they're both deaf (to some degree) so this would involve a conversation, at some considerable volume, about their personal details with their front door open for half an hour (?) in March
• this will all occur on the public pavement outside their terraced house, possibly in front of passers by and/or neighbours

Can't say that this looks like a good prospect and all involving folk with a fair degree of confusion who's memory of the previous 7 or so census events will be about getting a form to fill in delivered to the door.

 

[belboid]

Good thing they can ask for a form then, isnt it?

 

[brogdale]

Good thing they can ask for a form then, isnt it?

That's the point; I really don't think that they can.

 

[belboid]

Well, guess what? That's another thing you are wrong about. You could even do it on their behalf.

 

[brogdale]

Well, guess what? That's another thing you are wrong about. You could even do it on their behalf.

I think you've forgotten...I'm not engaging with the process myself, let alone for others.

 

[Orang Utan]

Silly man

 

[brogdale]

Silly man

All opinions are fine, but there will be old folks in the position I've described who don't have switched-on, engaged offspring on hand to help them.

 

[platinumsage]

That respondents can answer using their identified gender. So, much the same as the guidance in the 2011 census.

Nothing new there:

 

[belboid]

All opinions are fine, but there will be old folks in the position I've described who don't have switched-on, engaged offspring on hand to help them.

good thing they can just ask then. As you intimated in the first post but then decided to contradict yourself cos, well, god knows why.

 

[Orang Utan]

All opinions are fine, but there will be old folks in the position I've described who don't have switched-on, engaged offspring on hand to help them.

That’s where people like me come in.

 

[platinumsage]

Lots of cartoons about censuses past.

Wanker:

 

[brogdale]

good thing they can just ask then. As you intimated in the first post but then decided to contradict yourself cos, well, god knows why.

Unless I've mis-read the stuff, it looks like that 'just asking' would presuppose they've picked up, opened, retained and responded to the phone number given. Given their confused and chaotic days I'm not at all certain any of that will/would happen.

 

[belboid]

Unless I've mis-read the stuff...

I think we can take that as a given

 

[brogdale]

That’s where people like me come in.

That's great, but there are folk who won't even know that such help exists or how it might be accessed.
tbh, my main issue is that their days are such a mass of confusion and the effort of just surviving atm means this exercise is hardly like to register on their view.

 

[brogdale]

I think we can take that as a given

"we"

That's not an answer, but hey...

 

[Orang Utan]

That's great, but there are folk who won't even know that such help exists or how it might be accessed.
tbh, my main issue is that their days are such a mass of confusion and the effort of just surviving atm means this exercise is hardly like to register on their view.

They’ll be informed that help is available

 

[brogdale]

No, I think the 'timeline' of events I detailed above is really quite a possible outcome for my folks and quite a few other very old/vulnerable folk. A consequence of the ONS took the decision to plough ahead with the census during the pandemic.

Seems like they'll:
1. Get a letter offering them a code for online or a phone number to ring for paper.

• They're not picking up/opening all mail now
• If they do, they're likely to mis-place/forget/ignore
• Same for paper version if they did get round to ringing for one

2. They'll get a reminder letter?

• see above

3. An Adecco recruited fieldworker will call at their door to offer "assisted digital" entry

• I encourage them not to answer the door unless they know who it is
• but, supposing they do answer, the fieldworker proposes to enter their data at 2m distance from their doorstep
• they're both deaf (to some degree) so this would involve a conversation, at some considerable volume, about their personal details with their front door open for half an hour (?) in March
• this will all occur on the public pavement outside their terraced house, possibly in front of passers by and/or neighbours

 

[brogdale]

They’ll be informed that help is available

Go on...

 

[belboid]

A very similar way to every other census. Dealing with elderly people for are a bit deaf and forgetful is not exactly new.

 

[kabbes]

I am depressed at the lack of empathy for the fact that some people might not be in a position to immediately grasp that a census is happening, let alone just merrily go online to complete it or be happy to look up a phone number and chat on the phone to a stranger about it