Census 2021

[Orang Utan]

Good luck to you both. A cautionary tale.

In 2011, with time on my hands, I got the job I presume you both will be doing. My training consisted of a couple of hours of being told things weren't quite up to speed yet. During this training I found myself the only person there questioning (critically, but I thought helpfully) the logistics.

I then went to pick up my boxes of stuff from the team leader. When I got to his house I was met with an absolute garage full of boxes and a stressed leader trying to sort it all out. Thank God I didn't go for the leader job I thought to myself. I could never have stored all that. The leader mentioned to me, in the most suspicious tones, that he'd noticed I was the only one being critical (of the mess) at the meeting.

Got home and unpacked. I have a small house. My boxes took up half my living room. Then I set to work. What I found was all my addresses were completely out of order. I live in the countryside. Most homes here don't have house numbers but names. I was given a map of the area. I remember spending about 16 hours trying to sort out the mess of the addresses. It got worse. We'd been given a laptop each. The laptops were not properly working. The site needed to connect to wasn't working. But the worst thing of all was the laptop and website were absolute essential to the job and the laptop/website continually crashed my whole internet every time I tried to use it.

After 16 hours of sorting, and barely getting halfway through the address pile, and the laptop issues showing no sign of being solved, I gave up. The biggest reason I gave up was because I was not prepared to have no personal internet for the next 6 weeks.

Maybe they fixed the issues. I don't know. Because I walked out. When I returned all my stuff to the leader he was pissed off I was trying to claim 16 hours of work. It took me weeks to get what I was owed. I actually wish I'd tipped the boxes out back in his garage so he (or ore likely some other poor fool) would have had to do all the work I'd done over again.

I hope you don't face these problems. They've had 10 years to fix them right?

Good luck (seriously) to both. I think the Census is a good thing. But in 2011, in Wales, it was one of the most piss poorly organized projects I've ever had the misfortune to work with.

My role is helping people do it over the phone if they struggle to do it online. No paper involved

 

[belboid]

My role is helping people do it over the phone if they struggle to do it online. No paper involved

ohh, you'll be explaining what transgender and asking about sexual orientation lots then! Good luck

 

[brogdale]

Why do you want to steal £3000 from your community?

OK, I'll bite, then...care to show your working about this 'theft' of £3k from my community?

 

[belboid]

I already did, p182.

 

[brogdale]

I already did, p182.

But that was a story about an underlying error in population estimation, not about people refusing to complete their census return.

Is there any evidence that the state will not factor in non-compliance when estimating population for the purposes of grant funding?

 

[belboid]

But that was a story about an underlying error in population estimation, not about people refusing to complete their census return.

Is there any evidence that the state will not factor in non-compliance when estimating population for the purposes of grant funding?

It isn't 'estimation', it is an actual count, of actual people. Estimations are those figures that they come up with afterwards, based upon what they find out in the census. If they don't think you're there, they don't count you.

 

[brogdale]

It isn't 'estimation', it is an actual count, of actual people. Estimations are those figures that they come up with afterwards, based upon what they find out in the census. If they don't think you're there, they don't count you.

Yeah, certainly...but the ONS uses many other data sets to set their final estimates and with an estimated (2011) return rate of 94%, they have means to compensate for non-compliance. I still don't see where you're getting this 'theft' of £300 pa/£3kpd from?

 

[brogdale]

There's a pdf about the "Coverage assessment and adjustment methods" they used to do this in 2011 here.

 

[belboid]

aah, the link to a list of documents comprising 100's of pages of material, always the most convinving.

Yes, the ONS will make estimates based upon previous data and what they can glean from this years so far. They'll be wrong, but who needs accurate data?

 

[brogdale]

aah, the link to a list of documents comprising 100's of pages of material, always the most convinving.

Yes, the ONS will make estimates based upon previous data and what they can glean from this years so far. They'll be wrong, but who needs accurate data?

The first link would do you:




but the thing is that the demographers and statisticians have well established means to process, clean, adjust their raw undercounts to produce estimates informing resource allocation. My decision not to engage will not 'steal' £3k from my community or any community; you were not making sense with that guff.

 

[NoXion]

Love the idea that MI5 would need access to census data in order to be able to gather information on people. As if intelligence agencies didn't, you know, gather intelligence.

 

[brogdale]

Love the idea that MI5 would need access to census data in order to be able to gather information on people. As if intelligence agencies didn't, you know, gather intelligence.

Yes, or that the state need a census to know that we exist!

 

[NoXion]

Yes, or that the state need a census to know that we exist!

Maybe not all branches of the government employ spies, snoops and snitches and/or access to the data they gather?

 

[brogdale]

Maybe not all branches of the government employ spies, snoops and snitches and/or access to the data they gather?

Maybe not, but it's interesting to note that elements of the neoliberal state appear to have long felt it doesn't need a conventional census to know about population:

 

[belboid]

The first link would do you:

View attachment 256450

View attachment 256451
but the thing is that the demographers and statisticians have well established means to process, clean, adjust their raw undercounts to produce estimates informing resource allocation. My decision not to engage will not 'steal' £3k from my community or any community; you were not making sense with that guff.

well, at least you are admitting that it is involved with resource allocation, that is at least a step forward. But it is still no argument against the fact that they are wrong, and working off assumptions that may well be out of date (which is why there is a census). Lets hope you're a straight white man with no particular needs that are generally ill met by the state.

 

[belboid]

Maybe not, but it's interesting to note that elements of the neoliberal state appear to have long felt it doesn't need a conventional census to know about population:

View attachment 256453

A - I believe that is about paper based forms, hence the push towards a digital first census (Scotland and NI are apparently not prepared for a fully digital census yet, which is why their versions are delayed, nothing to do with Covid, surprisingly)

B - whether this is about paper or not, there certainly is a drive from the right to cancel the census, they hate it for reasons that are nothing to do with arms companies or privacy. It is bizarre and counter-productive for those who oppose their attempts to extend the market further and further to support them in destroying the census.

 

[Orang Utan]

is this you, brogdale ?

 

[platinumsage]

Interestingly the 1937 Soviet census revealed that the population was 18 million lower than claimed, and 10 million lower than official death records suggested, presumably due to famine etc.

Stalin wasn't happy and promptly executed a number of the prominent statisticians involved.

 

[brogdale]

well, at least you are admitting that it is involved with resource allocation, that is at least a step forward. But it is still no argument against the fact that they are wrong, and working off assumptions that may well be out of date (which is why there is a census). Lets hope you're a straight white man with no particular needs that are generally ill met by the state.

Yeah, and the £3k 'theft'?

 

[belboid]

Why do people making dumb 'points' include those big smilies? Is it to cover for the fact that there is no actual point they are making? It's always struck me as weird.

 

[Flavour]

My role is helping people do it over the phone if they struggle to do it online. No paper involved

I did this in 2011! I think I got 1 phone call in 2 weeks.

 

[miss direct]

Is it one form per household? Or per person?

 

[belboid]

One section for the household and then one each for everyone in said household.

 

[miss direct]

My housemate will probably chuck it in the bin like he did with my post the other day. What if I dont want my housemates to know private stuff about me?

 

[belboid]

Grab it before they do and do it online!

For student houses, they say (and it applies to any other shared household):


You and your housemates should have received a letter containing the access code needed to fill in a household census questionnaire online. If the household has not received this letter or cannot access it, you need to request a new access code.

If a member of the household can access the letter, they should:

• include you on the household form
• share the code with you so you can fill in your own answers on the household form
• request a new access code for you should you prefer to answer separately from the rest of the household

It’s your joint responsibility to complete the census, not your landlord’s. The form needs to include information on everyone who normally lives in the household.

You should be included in the census for your university address.

You can answer separately from your student household if you’d prefer to keep your answers private. You can request an access code to fill in an individual questionnaire.

 

[brogdale]

Why do people making dumb 'points' include those big smilies? Is it to cover for the fact that there is no actual point they are making? It's always struck me as weird.

It's because your claim was laughable.

 

[Orang Utan]

I did this in 2011! I think I got 1 phone call in 2 weeks.

That’s what I like to hear.
Anyway, not sure what all this Addeco stuff is all about - it’s all being done by the council up here

 

[Orang Utan]

My housemate will probably chuck it in the bin like he did with my post the other day. What if I dont want my housemates to know private stuff about me?

You can elect to do it yourself online

 

[brogdale]

Interestingly the 1937 Soviet census revealed that the population was 18 million lower than claimed, and 10 million lower than official death records suggested, presumably due to famine etc.

Stalin wasn't happy and promptly executed a number of the prominent statisticians involved.

In the PRC they had the official ML pro-natalist stance that (as the workers of the world create the wealth, the more workers the more wealth for the community) until...they didn't. Perceiving a Malthusian crisis of 'positive checks' (famine etc) they abruptly adopted anti-fatalism and promptly imprisoned/shot their former demographers.

 

[Serge Forward]

Why do people making dumb 'points' include those big smilies? Is it to cover for the fact that there is no actual point they are making? It's always struck me as weird.