Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not the questions that have ever exercised me so much as the answers and the use they might be put to.
Census 2021
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
I was Scottish in 1971, which was the first time I got recorded. I remember my parents filling the form out in a hotel lounge. My grandfather was with us. It was the first time he'd ever left England.
So perhaps I could claim to be a third generation Scot, and blag one of those Scottish Passports after all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i rest my case
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
We also went to see where Dr Finlay's Bookcase was filmed. We were hoping for a wee bit of full-on Janet, but were disappointed.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
it's possible he may be visible on the 1939 registration documents (this wasn't exactly a census - the 1941 census got scrapped - but a sort of emergency thing done in the early part of the war, so they could sort out ration books and so on) - people younger than a certain age have been redacted but i'm not sure what date the cut-off is.
may be worth seeing if local library service has online (or branch if it ever opens again) access to 'ancestry' or similar (mine has had it in branch for some time, but during the lockdown has put it online (behind a login)
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
The reality behind this claim by the ONS:
Census data can lawfully be shared with the security services:
Census data can lawfully be shared with the security services:
The guidance will say people should put the sex as recorded on their passport, birth certificate or gender recognition certificate. Only around 6000 people have a gender recognition certificate, and I doubt that many more have changed their passport - my guess is it's probably about 10,000 in total, and to some extent trans men will cancel out trans women. This represents 0.02% of the adult population. This will render any results of the census completely meaningless according to gender critical campaigners who are now crowdfunding for a judicial review because they claim it's illegal somehow to ask the question this way and are organising a mass boycott. This shit is getting exhausting.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I don't recall that is that different to the 2011 census actually - its just the additional question this time also. The hardcore critter crowd have just lost the plot/perspective.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Actually no, they explicitly say otherwise:
If you are one or more of non-binary, transgender, have variations of sex characteristics, sometimes also known as intersex, the answer you give can be different from what is on your birth certificate.
If you’re not sure how to answer, use the sex registered on your official documents, such as passport or driving licence, or whichever answer best describes your sex.
A later question gives the option to tell us if your gender is different from your sex registered at birth, and, if different, to record your gender.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
(at them not you)
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
you should probably quote the relevant bit.
[Prohibitions] does not apply to a disclosure which:
a) is required or permitted by any enactment,
b) is required by a Community obligation,
c) is necessary for the purpose of enabling or assisting the Board to exercise any of its functions,
d) has already lawfully been made available to the public,
e) is made in pursuance of an order of a court,
f) is made for the purposes of a criminal investigation or criminal proceedings (whether or not in the United Kingdom),
g) is made, in the interests of national security, to an Intelligence Service,
h) is made with the consent of the person to whom it relates, or
i) is made to an approved researcher."
g) Has been repealed. We have left the 'Community' so b is out too. e & f are indeed in place, and dubious as heck, even if the only three things they'll get to know that HMRC and/or DWP might not already know are about your homes heating, travel to work method and how you consider your health to be. You'll note that they are individual, not group based (G excluded) which precludes the kind of trawling exercises and mass datagrabs that the americans carried out.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Was interested to see that when the national security paragraph g) was repealed it was 'replaced' by Schedule 1 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 a provision to provided unfettered access to a full copy of the Electoral Register whenever any of the national security agencies wants a full copy.
That aside, the 'Register' headline seems to be accurate, then?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It removes MI5 from your list so you have maintained your accuracy levels. Glad you admitted your mistake tho. Oh, no you didn’t. Again.
if you have some desire to get everything completely and utterly wrong you just need to throw in ‘but they collect the same data through other means’ and you’ll have the whole shebang. If you use the word ‘censal’ too you can look like you really really know your stuff and aren’t just scrabbling about pulling any old shit off the internet like a....
if you have some desire to get everything completely and utterly wrong you just need to throw in ‘but they collect the same data through other means’ and you’ll have the whole shebang. If you use the word ‘censal’ too you can look like you really really know your stuff and aren’t just scrabbling about pulling any old shit off the internet like a....
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Was attempting to have a discussion about the repeal of g); perhaps that wasn't clear?
And in answer to the last question; no, I don't.
That's what it was going to say before gender critical people started to attack them. The latest guidance was just published a few days ago and says:
Census 2021: Final guidance for the question “What is your sex?” - Office for National Statistics
How we evaluated the results of our research and testing to finalise the Census 2021 online help guidance for the question “What is your sex?”. Aims to ensure that it is in line with the target concept of sex being sex as recorded on legal and official documents and is publicly acceptable.
www.ons.gov.uk
And they are still furious. (I suspect because they want everyone to be forced to answer according to their birth sex with no mention of other identities in the census at all - they don't really care about data being inaccurate, they care that the census acknowledges trans people exist)
davesgcr
Reading books
Yes - the 1921 census is eagerly awaited. My grandmother was in well heeled Llandrindod Wells on holiday in 1911 - things were a bit different for her in 1921. I won't bore you.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I hope they finally decide to use Annie’s Song as the theme tune.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Hmm, that is replacing para 2 of the bit I quoted ‘if you’re not sure...’ rather than para 1. So there is nothing to stop anyone putting what they wish really.
of course the terfs are still furious, they don’t want any recognition of trans people at all.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Conspiraloons. The folk whose methodology you are bizarrely following. One of their classics is to post a link to a long piece and to say - often in really big bolded letters - that the link proves them right even though it doesn’t.
Was attempting to have a discussion about the repeal of g); perhaps that wasn't clear?
And in answer to the last question; no, I don't.
You just posted a link to a piece that says security services don’t have access to the census data and then said - in big bolded letters - that it shows MI5 have access. Twice.
I really have no idea why you are so determined to keep on with your mistakes, you’re not normally so foolish. But you have been shown to be wrong on virtually everything you’ve said. You seem determined and determined not to let any new information alter your opinion.
it’s weird
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Personally, although I think it's quite interesting that the state says censal data is confidential when it isn't, my decisions not to engage with the process has nothing to do with that.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
no, you said your decisions were to do with the involvement of lockheed martin. But once you were told that it wasn't them any more and that it was a piece of piss to have nothing the company that took over from them you moved onto to a different subject. And you were wrong about that too.
You're a census conspiraloon.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'll not engage with a process involving and enriching a US military-industrial corporation. Sad times when that's deemed weird on Urban.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
If you were consistent about that I could have some respect for the position, but you are not. Every other time it has some direct benefit to you though,so you wont do that. You're laziness will not have any effect on the amount they get, in fact they'll be getting that more money for no work! Well done you.
I'll not engage with a process involving and enriching a US military-industrial corporation. Sad times when that's deemed weird on Urban.
What is sad is when a normally intelligent poster repeatedly posts drivel, refuses to acknowledge their (many) errors of fact and just ploughs on regardless.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Rejecting the neoliberal state's compulsion to engage with their outsourcing partners is not laziness.
That's just shit posting.
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