Census 2021
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Data collected but not 'kept anywhere'?
richthehat
New Member
Got my Census 2021 letter. Went online and looked at the form.
Shady lying foreign corporate interests with links to torture, demanding to know my ethnic origin to put on a list for obviously corrupt local authorities, threatening me with violence to the tune of £1,000 if I don't answer? That isn't England; that's Nazi-occupied Holland.
No. Not filling that out. This can be the last Census.
Shady lying foreign corporate interests with links to torture, demanding to know my ethnic origin to put on a list for obviously corrupt local authorities, threatening me with violence to the tune of £1,000 if I don't answer? That isn't England; that's Nazi-occupied Holland.
No. Not filling that out. This can be the last Census.
andysays
Love and solidarity
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Dear diary,
It's finally happened. After all these months, today I got a form to fill in and I might get a fine if I don't do it. I hope one day somebody finds this diary so it can serve as a warning to the people of the future.
Yours,
Anne.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
One report puts it at up to 22k over the ten years for everyone who succeeds in convincing the state (ie some temp worker making repeat visits) that the property is empty.
of course if you fail to do so and are just guessed at with accessible data then the impact will be less.
of course if you fail to do so and are just guessed at with accessible data then the impact will be less.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Good to know.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm sure that would be equally persuasive.
I don't agree with everything brogdale has said on this thread, but the bombastic way you've attempted to dismiss every potential criticism of the the census, especially the way it's currently being carried out in the midst of a pandemic, hasn't been a terribly engaging experience, TBH.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I completely agree with many of the criticisms of how it is being carried out this time around.
but, it’s true, I have little patience for the fucking stupid criticisms of the actual census. In the above quoted instance it’s just a random bunch of ludicrously ott, ever so vaguely related to reality, tosh that sounds like Ric in the young ones.
(e2a: I am a bit surprised that folk have only just noticed that i am a frequently rude and crotchety fucker).
but, it’s true, I have little patience for the fucking stupid criticisms of the actual census. In the above quoted instance it’s just a random bunch of ludicrously ott, ever so vaguely related to reality, tosh that sounds like Ric in the young ones.
(e2a: I am a bit surprised that folk have only just noticed that i am a frequently rude and crotchety fucker).
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andysays
Love and solidarity
Have we had any discussion about the origin of the census yet?
Nothing to be concerned about there, surely...
Nothing to be concerned about there, surely...
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Most dry stone walls (or at least ‘lots of’) in the lakes and dales were originally built by pow’s from the napoleonic war (and they're still quite groovy and useful)
richthehat
New Member
Who do you think you are: 'We?' The police? You and your partner don't represent anybody.
And what £3,000? You know nothing about me, or my community. And what if I was stealing £3,000 from them? What are you going to do about it?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That's fine; disagreement is the very fuel rods of Urban and what makes it so rewarding, but retreating into personalised attack mode rarely helps a thread.
But hey, we carry on.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It's the lower case thing, I reckon
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
£3,000 per person is the total local authorities lose if you convince the census that your property is unoccupied. Others have estimated the average to actually be 22k per household over the ten years. That's money for evil things schools and housing. What if you are doing so? Well, it's a bit wanky, even before we get to the bit about you being on a list they get (guess what? They get no such list! Not even your name for 100 years). And I dare say none of us are going to do any more about it than go 'fucking idiot,' but the state might, seeing as it's a law and all that.
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They haven't won yet, they have been granted permission to go to judicial review which will likely happen next week, and the Judge made an interim order the wording should be changed until that takes place - so it could be changed back. Whatever happens it's unlikely to change the way most trans people answer the question anyway so it all feels a bit pointless.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm not sure associating the census with state enforced labour of POWs will actually allay anyone's concerns here, but you carry on if you think this helps your argument.
richthehat
New Member
The OP states that the England and Wales Census is being contracted to a number of corporate interests from outside the UK, including one owned by a US Defence contractor, whom I am not accountable to no matter how big their arsenal is. In Scotland a boycott of the Census has been recommended on account of it having been contracted to a subsidiary of US contractor CACI International, which provided interrogators during the Abu Ghraib Prison torture scandal of the Second Gulf War, in which US Defence forces and CIA operatives perpetrated physical and sexual abuse, rape, sodomy and murder against Iraqi detainees. Photographs of the incidents were published.
My ethnic origin is of no relevance to anything, and anyone who asks for it without looking me in the face can only be looking to discriminate on that basis one way or another.
Local authorities have been cutting services across the board for years, and it is an insult to human intelligence to expect anyone to believe that the Census is to help the local authorities better distribute resources, whether on an ethnic or on any other basis.
It has been made quite clear that the only reason anyone has for completing the Census is to avoid a £1,000 fine. Presumably that would be collected by violently breaking into people's homes with a warrant and seizing goods to that value.
In Nazi-occupied Holland, the Nazis organized a census of the country with the sole purpose of identifying Dutch citizens who did not fit their racial eugenics programme. The population had no idea, and everyone dutifully filled out their census forms, thereby becoming unwittingly complicit in the worst kind of discrimination.
The Census was only instituted in the first place in AD1801 in order to count the number of able-bodied men available to fight in the Napoleonic Wars, which obviously have been concluded for more than two centuries now. Even the Government hates it, and by employing shady foreign corporate entities including known suppliers of interrogators and torturers, demanding the answers to far too many impertinent questions, the Government is actively encouraging British people to boycott the Census. This should be the last census.
Finally, the last time someone dismissed a perfectly solid argument of mine with: 'that's fucking stupid', was a policeman in response to my assertions that the police are accountable to the general public when they shoot dead unarmed civilians in their own homes for no reason, and it is a civic duty to demand an explanation from them.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It's just a vaguely interesting side note. With the additional note that sometimes good things grow out of bad things. Cow shit is great manure, after all.
e2a: or more unarguably, Ordnance Survey maps.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Yes, been through all of these before. There is no organised boycott this year due to a conglomerate led by Leidos being involved in printing and scanning some documents. The only announced 'campaigns' are around writing in European or Cornish or whatever, or summat in the religion bit. Ohh, and the more vociferous campaign by the transphobic A Woman's Place et al.
You have a write in option on ethnicity, so you can use that if you want. The rest of that sentence, well, its just wrong but all the tea in Harrods wouldn't convince you otherwise so, whatever. Ditto the next para, tho at least you've dropped the nazi bit now.
Nice story, ric.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Quite. It's like the money being raised for judicial reviews against things that haven't even changed on the census for years, and that it won't realistically affect how some trans people will answer, could have actually been used for more constructive causes right now affecting women such as DV support, etc. and especially as women have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic too. Oh wait...
Meanwhile neoliberal governments continue to fuck people over... and some of these gender critters consider themselves socialists it seems.
richthehat
New Member
Inappropriate Content
I'm not interested in anyone's campaign. I just won't fill out ethnic monitoring forms, because to do so makes me complicit in discrimination one way or another, to an unforeseeable extent; cf. the well-established fact of the Nazi census of Holland to find out who all the Jews were so they could be exterminated.
Call me Ric one more time nonce, I will root out your whole fucking clan.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
thank you for making me look calm and reasonable, Mr Hat
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Well I've just filled mine in, It took me about 20 minutes to do, there are currently 4 people resident in the Q household. I did consider whether or not to include my youngest daughter who has been living with her eldest sister since July last year, She will return home before she trots off to Uni in September but it probably won't be before 21 March. I suppose I had better mention it to my SiL in case he leaves her off his thinking she is on mine.
There is no information on the census that I can see that wouldn't be available to obtain from other sources in a great deal more detail if they really wanted too.
There is no information on the census that I can see that wouldn't be available to obtain from other sources in a great deal more detail if they really wanted too.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The household q (1&2) says 'usually,' so you could include her but note in Q6 on the individual she is currently elsewhere. If she is listed in the household question at her actual current address, she should say she resides more than 30 days a year elsewhere, and where that is. There'll then be a cross-referencing of those forms so she is counted twice. As long as she is listed on one she will be counted (obvs).
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