Calais: Migration and the UK Border

[Orang Utan]

You're being simplistic. We just don't have the money. I could give you an endless list of causes this country can't afford.

We have loads of money. We're one of the wealthiest countries in the world. We also have the privilege of a considerable amount of freedom. We have the ability and duty to look after those whose countries are fucked up, as a consequence of our own wealth and freedoms.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Who's cunting off the poor?

Sorry. Must have gotten you mixed up with the poster who just posted this.

Close the borders.
No money for asylum seekers
No money for foreign aid

 

[free spirit]

You're being simplistic. We just don't have the money. I could give you an endless list of causes this country can't afford.

see this is one of the biggest lies politicians have sold to the UK public.

We're in a far better position as a country financially than for the majority of the time since WW2. The problem is that the money is increasingly being concentrated in the hands of the top 1% or 0.001% of the population who do everything they can to avoid paying tax on it, and also don't recycle that money back into the economy.

And what money was used to attempt to kick start the economy after the 2008 crash pretty much all went into the pockets of those same rich elite one way or another.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I can't help out anyone. I don't have any money.

You won't find many arguments here about the idea that it's the rich that should pay. No-one's suggesting that you personally fork out the money needed, you complete arsetit.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

You won't find many arguments here about the idea that it's the rich that should pay. No-one's suggesting that you personally fork out the money needed, you complete arsetit.

The country would have to...it's broke...and the poor shouldn't be taxed

see this is one of the biggest lies politicians have sold to the UK public.

We're in a far better position as a country financially than for the majority of the time since WW2. The problem is that the money is increasingly being concentrated in the hands of the top 1% or 0.001% of the population who do everything they can to avoid paying tax on it, and also don't recycle that money back into the economy.

And what money was used to attempt to kick start the economy after the 2008 crash pretty much all went into the pockets of those same rich elite one way or another.

NATIONAL DEBT.

I agree regarding the rich - but if the rich aren't paying their fair share, it means the poor are footing the bill.

It's immoral that the poor in the UK are taxed, when the poor in the UK aren't even being taken care off, especially the elderly.

Anyway...I promised to fuck off and leave you all to talk about Calais!

 

[Orang Utan]

At least the poor in the UK aren't generally being bombed and shot.

 

[free spirit]

NATIONAL DEBT.

my point exactly

You have been lied to. We esablished the NHS and welfare state at a point when our national debt as a proportion of GDP was 3 times as high as it is now.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The country would have to...it's broke

No. It's not.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

At least the poor in the UK aren't generally being bombed and shot.

That isn't strictly true, but it would certainly would be the case if we stopped getting involved in the affairs of other country, be it Iraq or France.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

No. It's not.

If we are in debt, we're broke.

 

[Orang Utan]

That isn't strictly true, but it would certainly would be the case if we stopped getting involved in the affairs of other country, be it Iraq or France.

Not an internationalist then? What does that make you then?

 

[brogdale]

If we are in debt, we're broke.

We?

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Not an internationalist then? What does that make you then?

British I guess.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If we are in debt, we're broke.

That's not the definition of broke. Anyway, the public debt has existed for 300 years; the only question you should ask is how serviceable that debt is, i.e. how easy is it to pay off given our national income, the maturity of the debt (how long we have to pay it off), the rate of interest on that debt. On all counts we are in a better position now than for most of the history of the country.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

We?

Yes we. The working class folk of Britain.

When some establishment cunt uses the word "We" they certainly aren't including me as part of that "we".

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

That's not the definition of broke. Anyway, the public debt has existed for 300 years; the only question you should ask is how serviceable that debt is, i.e. how easy is it to pay off given our national income, the maturity of the debt (how long we have to pay it off), the rate of interest on that debt. On all counts we are in a better position now than for most of the history of the country.

To coin a question.

Who is we?

 

[emanymton]

If we are in debt, we're broke.

Yeah, just like the queen mother, lived in povity she did.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Yeah, just like the queen mother, lived in povity she did.

You can't win. You'll only end up making my points for me.

At the end of the day, it's unfair to tax the poor for failings of both the rich in this country AND abroad.

 

[Flanflinger]

At least the poor in the UK aren't generally being bombed and shot.

Why the fuck are you giving Cameron and Osborne ideas ?

 

[free spirit]

If we are in debt, we're broke.

rubbish.

Would you say that everyone who has a mortgage is therefore broke?

You can't win. You'll only end up making my points for me.

At the end of the day, it's unfair to tax the poor for failings of both the rich in this country AND abroad.

You seem to have a basic misunderstanding about where this board's sympathies lie when it comes to taxation of the working class vs the rich.

Richest 1% of people own nearly half of global wealth, says report

[source]

These parasites are the problem, they're the ones hoarding the money, destroying the economy in the process, and finding new ways to get even richer whatever happens to the rest of us while avoiding paying as much as they possibly can in tax.

If they own 50% of the wealth, then is stands to reason that if the wealth were redistributed and taxed properly, then the governments of the world would have roughly twice as much money to work with, and / or would be able to cut taxes for the working class to compensate.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

To coin a question.

Who is we?

Those who can afford to pay tax.

 

[eatmorecheese]

SpookyFrank thanks very much for your insights and the work you are doing, bearing witness to some brutal realities.

Spirit Of Slade the UK working class share the same enemies facing migrants at Calais. The only difference, on a comparative basis, is that its easier to disregard the outsider, the other, to deny more of their basic rights in a systemic, institutional way. These are people, not just collateral of the global neoliberal set-up or statistics of displacement from war zones.

We ain't broke, we're unequal. On both sides of the Channel. Stop mining this barren seam.

 

[brogdale]

Yes we. The working class folk of Britain.

When some establishment cunt uses the word "We" they certainly aren't including me as part of that "we".

So, the country is "broke", and somehow that status is the exclusive preserve of working class folk?

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

SpookyFrank thanks very much for your insights and the work you are doing, bearing witness to some brutal realities.

Spirit Of Slade the UK working class share the same enemies facing migrants at Calais. The only difference, on a comparative basis, is that its easier to disregard the outsider, the other, to deny more of their basic rights in a systemic, institutional way. These are people, not just collateral of the global neoliberal set-up or statistics of displacement from war zones.

We ain't broke, we're unequal. On both sides of the Channel. Stop mining this barren seam.

Indeed we do face the same enemies. I appreciate that they are real people. But they are different people, with cultural differences, that while I can appreciate in a positive way, our enemies will exploit those differences in quite paradoxical ways and no offence intended, but some people on this thread are unwitting tools.

It's people who see racism in just about any situation that involves immigrants, that really scares me. Not the immigrants themselves.

Sometimes, I just feel like packing my bags and going to a country like Argentina or Japan - I dunno, somewhere I can live without people endlessly seeing racism in every fucking situation there is.

Some people will NEVER be happy. Some claim that we've had 8 million immigrants since the last Labour government. I don't know if that is true or not, nor do I care. But I tell you what. If we had double what we've actually had, people would still be complaining that this is a racist, selfish country not doing it's fair share etc.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Those who can afford to pay tax.

What about those who after paying the taxes, can't afford to live?

Surely that's a good indicator that they can't afford the taxes that was deducted before they received their wages?

 

[eatmorecheese]

Sometimes, I just feel like packing my bags and going to a country like Argentina or Japan

You serious? It gets to you that much?

Try coming from here:

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/eritrea

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Amnesty on Syrian refugees:

Excluding Germany, the five largest countries in the EU (the UK, France, Italy, Spain and Poland) have pledged just 2,000 places between them constituting just 0.001per cent of their combined populations.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/world-s-pitiful-response-syria-s-refugee-crisis-2014-12-05
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/fact...-crisis-international-resettlement-2014-12-05

I'd just like to quote my own post from page 1. 2000 places between them.

I don't care whether their motivations are racist or to prevent economic migration or whatever, anyone who does that is a cunt.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What about those who after paying the taxes, can't afford to live?

Surely that's a good indicator that they can't afford the taxes that was deducted before they received their wages?

You: Who should pay tax?
Me: Those who can afford it.
You: But what about those who can't afford it?
Me:

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

I'd just like to quote my own post from page 1. 2000 places between them.

I don't care whether their motivations are racist or to prevent economic migration or whatever, anyone who does that is a cunt.

With all due respect in the world. Please don't take this question the wrong way, bear with me like...

...do you care about all refugees or just the Syrian ones?

...I was going to close off my post here, but I'll get to the point. It isn't just Syrians that want to get into those 5 countries.

But anyway, it's Israel that should be taking in all of those refugees seeing as they were so eager topple the Syrian regime by providing any random twat in the country sporting combat fatigues with money and weapons.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

You: Who should pay tax?
Me: Those who can afford it.
You: But what about those who can't afford it?
Me:

My point being that millions who can't afford to pay tax, still have to pay it if they are in a regular job.