Calais: Migration and the UK Border

[FNG]

Even for India, we need a visa to visit the place, yet they don't need a visa to visit the UK. Unfair? Yes. Racist against Europeans? No.

utter bullshit you would need at least a general visitor visa to come from india to uk, which costs £83 for application non refundable if turned down

https://www.gov.uk/general-visit-visa
What you can and can’t do
You can study for up to 30 days, as long as it’s not the main reason for your visit.

You can’t:

• take paid or unpaid work
• live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent visits
• marry or register a civil partnership, or give notice of marriage or civil partnership
• get private medical treatment
• get public funds

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

utter bullshit you would need at least a general visitor visa to come from india to uk, which costs £83 for application non refundable if turned down

https://www.gov.uk/general-visit-visa
What you can and can’t do
You can study for up to 30 days, as long as it’s not the main reason for your visit.

You can’t:

• take paid or unpaid work
• live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent visits
• marry or register a civil partnership, or give notice of marriage or civil partnership
• get private medical treatment
• get public funds

So they've changed their policy on India since Blair's government. Why was that then? Ah yes because people were taking the piss by overstaying, working when they shouldn't etc etc etc.

We still need a visa to visit India.

Where's the racism? (Not necessarily a question directed at FNG more at SpookyFrank)

 

[FNG]

not interested in talking to someone who trots out falsisms like that.
im out

 

[SpookyFrank]

"OK, so you've shown what I said to be demonstrably false, but that doesn't affect the point I'm making in any way"

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

"OK, so you've shown what I said to be demonstrably false, but that doesn't affect the point I'm making in any way"

Erh no...you shown that one of many points I've made to make my case is false, not that I don't have a case, which is that it isn't racist to have EU border controls.

Besides, most people who oppose your views, would argue for tight UK immigration controls and a UK exit from the EU to reclaim the borders.

So your whole European free movement + European secure borders = racism arguement is moot.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

not interested in talking to someone who trots out falsisms like that.
im out

FFS. So I was out of date on UK policy on Indian Visas, it's not in the same galaxy as making some crass generalisation lifted from the Daily Mail.

If you think I did that deliberately, I really don't care, because I know I was being sincere and honest.

 

[SpookyFrank]

"I may have lied, but I did so honestly."

You should get a job doing PR work for Prince Andrew.

 

[kenny g]

I really don't care, because I know I was being sincere and honest.

Great, now fuck off.

Leaving this "mistake" aside. Anyone who believes the increase in migrants from Syria is due to economic reasons is a fucking idiot, however sincere and honest they may claim to be.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Great, now fuck off.

Leaving this "mistake" aside. Anyone who believes the increase in migrants from Syria is due to economic reasons is a fucking idiot, however sincere and honest they may claim to be.

As I said. There is no direct flight from Syria to the UK....so....

 

[free spirit]

As I said. There is no direct flight from Syria to the UK....so....

so.... refugees have to come via other countries to get here?

or is it your contention that the UK shouldn't take our fair share of refugees from countries that are being devastated by a war in which few of those involved are paying any heed to the Geneva convention / protecting civilians.

 

[Orang Utan]

As I said. There is no direct flight from Syria to the UK....so....

So?

 

[Orang Utan]

Thanks for this thread, SpookyFrank - very illuminating, if depressing reading

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

So?

So they would have come through multiple countries, many of which they could have claimed asylum at.

Therefore, they are asylum seekers at the first country, but cease to be so at the second, in which they would be economic migrants if they get anywhere near the UK.

 

[Orang Utan]

So they would have come through multiple countries, many of which they could have claimed asylum at.

Therefore, they are asylum seekers at the first country, but cease to be so at the second, in which they would be economic migrants if they get anywhere near the UK.

That's not true at all. Look at the make up of the jungles in Calais. All refugees from war torn countries. You think it's a co-incidence?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Thanks for this thread, SpookyFrank - very illuminating, if depressing reading

No problem. I find doing some kind of 'info dump' when I come back from Calais helps me to process my own thoughts and experiences. I'm glad to see people are taking an interest.

Just on that note, and relating to the 'border controls aren't racist' argument, I find coming home from Calais after spending time with all these people is a strange experience because of how easy it is for me. I stroll up to the ferry terminal, flash my passport, pay my 30 euros and then try and find a comfy place on the boat to take a nap for an hour or so before we arrive in the UK. And there are all these people I've left behind me for whom it may ultimately prove impossible to make that same journey, and probably some who will be killed in the attempt. What's the difference between them and me? They have different coloured skin, and they come from a different country. Because of those two things, our experiences and the way we are treated are so vastly different that you might think we were different species altogether. So when I hear people say there's nothing racist about border controls, I know with cast-iron certainty that they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's not true at all. Look at the make up of the jungles in Calais. All refugees from war torn countries. You think it's a co-incidence?

Watch out, he's about to explain that this is simply because war is bad for the economy.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

That's not true at all. Look at the make up of the jungles in Calais. All refugees from war torn countries. You think it's a co-incidence?

Is there a war going on in France then?

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

No problem. I find doing some kind of 'info dump' when I come back from Calais helps me to process my own thoughts and experiences. I'm glad to see people are taking an interest.

Just on that note, and relating to the 'border controls aren't racist' argument, I find coming home from Calais after spending time with all these people is a strange experience because of how easy it is for me. I stroll up to the ferry terminal, flash my passport, pay my 30 euros and then try and find a comfy place on the boat to take a nap for an hour or so before we arrive in the UK. And there are all these people I've left behind me for whom it may ultimately prove impossible to make that same journey, and probably some who will be killed in the attempt. What's the difference between them and me? They have different coloured skin, and they come from a different country. Because of those two things, our experiences and the way we are treated are so vastly different that you might think we were different species altogether. So when I hear people say there's nothing racist about border controls, I know with cast-iron certainty that they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

Oh fucking please. Yeah like border control gave you a smile and a wink and said "No need to get out your passport sir, you're clearly British because of your white skin!"

Look around you. There are millions of people who aren't white that are legally entitled to be in the UK. A load of them would have been on the same ferry as you.

 

[bluescreen]

Why is it so important to you to 'prove'* that aggressive border control against refugees isn't racist? Isn't the sheer human misery it creates enough for you to question its morality?

*'Prove' is in inverted commas because you can't prove it.

 

[SpookyFrank]

No racism in Europe, see:

A Roma baby girl has been denied a burial space by a French mayor, sparking outrage among activists.

The girl, who died on Christmas Day, reportedly of sudden infant death syndrome, was refused burial in Champlan, south of Paris.

The mayor said priority had to be given to taxpayers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30670371

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Is there a war going on in France then?

Why does it matter that someone passes through several countries before they settle? If you were fleeing for your life, uprooting your family to start afresh, wouldn't to try to make it to a land where you feel you were best able to make a living for yourself? This doesn't make someone any less of a refugee. It doesn't suddenly turn them into an 'economic migrant' whatever that is. It makes them human.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

No racism in Europe, see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30670371

What does that story have to do with anything or more importantly immigration rules?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Oh fucking please. Yeah like border control gave you a smile and a wink and said "No need to get out your passport sir, you're clearly British because of your white skin!"

I did once travel back from Calais with a friend, a British man of Arab heritage with an obviously Arabic-sounding name. On that occasion we were taken in for questioning by customs officials.

Just coincidence, I expect.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Why does it matter that someone passes through several countries before they settle? If you were fleeing for your life, uprooting your family to start afresh, wouldn't to try to make it to a land where you feel you were best able to make a living for yourself? This doesn't make someone any less of a refugee. It doesn't suddenly turn them into an 'economic migrant' whatever that is. It makes them human.

Who is blaming them? I'm certainly not. But as far as we should be concerned in the UK, they are economic migrants because they aren't here because they are in fear of their lives on continental Europe.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

I did once travel back from Calais with a friend, a British man of Arab heritage with an obviously Arabic-sounding name. On that occasion we were taken in for questioning by customs officials.

Just coincidence, I expect.

I'm white. I keep getting followed around by a middle eastern security guard every time I visit a shop.

Just coincidence, I expect.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Who is blaming them? I'm certainly not. But as far as we should be concerned in the UK, they are economic migrants because they aren't here because they are in fear of their lives on continental Europe.

And you know this how exactly?

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm white.

Yes, I think we've all guessed that already.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Who is blaming them? I'm certainly not. But as far as we should be concerned in the UK, they are economic migrants because they aren't here because they are in fear of their lives on continental Europe.

The only reason to classify them as economic migrants is so that we don't have to feel guilty about not helping out as much as we should. Half of the wars in this world are caused by us anyway; we should be taking on a fair share of the people displaced as a result.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

Why is it so important to you to 'prove'* that aggressive border control against refugees isn't racist? Isn't the sheer human misery it creates enough for you to question its morality?

*'Prove' is in inverted commas because you can't prove it.

I do question it's morality. But to say that there is racism when there is none, creates a diversion away from the real causes of the problems in the first place.

Unregulated capitalism running amok and the hands of corrupt politicians on the take, rather than breaking up large banks that are party of a very profitable war machine is where I lay the blame.

 

[Spirit Of Slade]

The only reason to classify them as economic migrants is so that we don't have to feel guilty about not helping out as much as we should. Half of the wars in this world are caused by us anyway; we should be taking on a fair share of the people displaced as a result.

No. I'm more for breaking up the banks, stopping the wars and having the fucking Queen beg for money by offering blow jobs to people on the steps of Clapham Common tube station, than a fudge "fix" of having unfettered immigration that helps the rich rather than normal working class people.

Close the borders. Turn Buck Palace into a place for homeless immigrants etc.

Get the aristocracy, strip them of their land and assets and give the lot away to people in Calais for all I care.

I'm just fucked off to the back teeth of the country "borrowing" money from rich banking families that didn't have the money in the first place, for the debt to be paid back in real money from the country's poor.

No money for asylum seekers
No money for Trident
No money for foreign aid

The country is fucking broke!