Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Fedayn]

[


No, because, as it seems like I keep having to repeat, it wasn't anywhere near as widespread and hence not so lucrative a business, and people didn't usually cover entire limbs with garish colours that look from a short distance like awful burns or scars.

I know, cover your eyes, avert your gaze, make them hide in their houses..... Aaaaahh the horror. Do you close your eyes and shake your head when you see such sights?

 

[temper_tantrum]

Amazing how self-styled revolutionaries can delude thyemselves into claiming a totally commercially drive bit of celebrity trash culture is some kind of sign of working class vibrancy.

The only person to make claims about the social significance of tattooing is, erm, you.

 

[LLETSA]

But again that's not new neither, it's just moved here. Whole body tattoos are ancient aswell.

Aaaahh, getting a big tattoo de facto = lack of individuality. Really? Care to explain this burp?

However you want to paint it, it's only relatively recently that you began to see giant tattoos on such a wide numbe and variety of people.

And when you join in a trend, of course you're displaying a lack of individuality.

 

[LLETSA]

i saw two lovely girls, with lovely bottoms. they would have looked a treat in pearls. but they had wilfully disfigured themselves. like a sailor!

Middle-aged men with the mentality of schoolkids. This is what I meant by the new infantilism.

 

[Fedayn]

However you want to paint it, it's only relatively recently that you began to see giant tattoos on such a wide numbe and variety of people.

In this country perhaps, wordlwide and historically no. But again so what?

And when you join in a trend, of course you're displaying a lack of individuality.

This 'trend' you refer to, when did it start? Where did it come from?

 

[discokermit]

[

and people didn't usually cover entire limbs with garish colours that look from a short distance like awful burns or scars.

they were quite popular twenty odd years ago when i got my half sleeve done and my brother one upped me by getting two full ones. a few of the apprentices i went to tech college with had them as well.

 

[LLETSA]

I know, cover your eyes, avert your gaze, make them hide in their houses..... Aaaaahh the horror. Do you close your eyes and shake your head when you see such sights?

I don't do anything other than silently abandon all hope.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The most extensive tattoos I see are on blokes in their 60s in pubs IME. Puts the hipsters to shame.

 

[LLETSA]

they were quite popular twenty odd years ago when i got my half sleeve done and my brother one upped me by getting two full ones. a few of the apprentices i went to tech college with had them as well.

As I keep having to say (sigh), some people had them, yes. But nowhere near as many.

 

[LLETSA]

The most extensive tattoos I see are on blokes in their 60s in pubs IME. Puts the hipsters to shame.

Yes, but they tend to keep them covered up.

 

[discokermit]

Middle-aged men with the mentality of schoolkids. This is what I meant by the new infantilism.

middle aged man with the mentality of private frazer. the old fogeyism.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yes, but they tend to keep them covered up.

If they did I wouldn't have seen them.

 

[LLETSA]

This 'trend' you refer to, when did it start? Where did it come from?

I know your aerieted because you've belonged to a sub-culture where this kind of stuff is the done thing. But it isn't possible to deny that it's now all-too mainstream. It's one thing when you're a hairy-arsed skinhead with a big tattoo and another when you're a female account manager with three kids and the school run to think about. And zumba on Thursday evenings.


When did it start? Relatively recently as a widespread phenomenon. Where did it come from? I don't know. Did some airheaded celebrity kick it off?

 

[temper_tantrum]

Just to be clear, the point of this diverting derail is to justify your dislike of Laurie Penny's hair - ?

 

[temper_tantrum]

I know your aerieted because you've belonged to a sub-culture where this kind of stuff is the done thing. But it isn't possible to deny that it's now all-too mainstream. It's one thing when you're a hairy-arsed skinhead with a big tattoo and another when you're a female account manager with three kids and the school run to think about. And zumba on Thursday evenings.


When did it start? Relatively recently as a widespread phenomenon. Where did it come from? I don't know. Did some airheaded celebrity kick it off?

More sexist nonsense.

 

[LLETSA]

If they did I wouldn't have seen them.

Well I worked with older men with tattoos across their backs and chests but you only saw them if they were changing their shirts or jumpers before going home or whatever. Like my dad, some of them seemed to regard them only as youthful follies.

 

[discokermit]

As I keep having to say (sigh), some people had them, yes. But nowhere near as many.

footballers with their tops off on the telly. people see it, like it and copy it. nothing new and nothing significant. just fashion.

 

[LLETSA]

middle aged man with the mentality of private frazer. the old fogeyism.

Ah yes, the dreaded old-fogeyism-one of the biggest possible sins of the times, and another sign of the triumph of infantilism.

Anyway, I'm having a break to watch a film. I might see some of you dickheads later.

 

[LLETSA]

More sexist nonsense.

Luckily, you are here to highlight it and prevent it getting out of hand.

 

[temper_tantrum]

Luckily, you are here to highlight it and prevent it getting out of hand.

Too late for that, sadly. I fear you're beyond help, judging by your current state of utter confusion.

 

[discokermit]

Ah yes, the dreaded old-fogeyism-one of the biggest possible sins of the times, and another sign of the triumph of infantilism.

Anyway, I'm having a break to watch a film. I might see some of you dickheads later.

you fear youth and you fear women.

 

[DotCommunist]

it was all your daft fanboy response merited. have another

simple clarification counts as fanboyism. drip-drip-drip.

 

[DotCommunist]

Also - I don't want to argue either - but I don't see your argument on this one. China Mieville stood for election, which we agree is attention-seeking, and yet that is somehow evidence that he isn't as bad as LP?

for an org that gets a lot of oft valid and sometimes not stick- not the main point however. He was putting himself in the position where he would be endorsed or not by the people he claimed to speak for. Democractic, right? not media driven voice. I believe he lost as well, so there you have it. But I hope you see what I mean here

 

[Balbi]

Is someone going to feed that high horse, it must be knackered carrying round LLETSA and his devils advocate winston smith intellectual pomp.

 

[temper_tantrum]

for an org that gets a lot of oft valid and sometimes not stick- not the main point however. He was putting himself in the position where he would be endorsed or not by the people he claimed to speak for. Democractic, right? not media driven voice. I believe he lost as well, so there you have it. But I hope you see what I mean here

I kinda do - he put his balls on the line by acting on his beliefs in a way LP hasn't. But I reckon that if LP got actively involved in politics, acting on her beliefs, she'd get accused of attention-seeking. It wouldn't make a difference.
I get the impression that there's nothing she can do now that would satisfy her detractors, other than shut up and go away.
Like I said, I'm glad that Twitter etc wan't around when I was her age. It would be really shit to be judged for the rest of your life on silly things you said/did/thought in your early 20s. Which is what is going to happen to her.

 

[discokermit]

Great political debates that never happened:

VS

Entertaining? Probably.

Foregone conclusion? Definitely.

Watching him eat her for breakfast? Priceless.

i dunno. at least she's never been a copper or a tout (to my knowledge). at least not yet. she could fling that in his posh face and he wouldn't have much of a comeback.

 

[Frances Lengel]

LLETSA knows his shit - Infantilisation of the working classes - It's definitely what's happening. And tattoos are corny, even though I've got a couple I reckon they look nobby. Let's let someone draw on our skin in order that we might look cool, I mean come on.

 

[discokermit]

LLETSA knows his shit

no he doesn't.

 

[Frances Lengel]

no he doesn't.

I think he does, that Bukowski poem "Dinosauria, we", that's what he reminds me of.

 

[discokermit]

poetry? ponce.