Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[tufty79]

Why he wasn't banned for that let alone his latest shenanigans is beyond me.

that.

 

[rekil]

that.

I'm more likely to get banned for asking what private school FM went to, than firky is for that.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I don't know anything about this reference to Firky, I have no idea whether it was reported or not and I'm not going to address it here because it's a distraction from the point at hand.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

So apart from all this shite about Firky, what's the excuse now?

 

[toggle]

Nobody told you to shut up or said that abuse of women isn't important.

Maybe this 'head above the parapet' rubbish does have to stop really.

 

[andysays]

Maybe this 'head above the parapet' rubbish does have to stop really

For what it's worth copliker, I still think an explanation of what you meant by this might, even now, go some way towards sorting this out.

 

[toggle]

preferably one that doesn't assume anyone complaining about online abuse of women is supporting a version of feminism that is a m/c only club.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What do you want.

You to display why your misogynist posts, weren't.

 

[rekil]

For what it's worth copliker, I still think an explanation of what you meant by this might, even now, go some way towards sorting this out.

I am bored out of my tiny paddy mind with this but I was referring to LP's imaginary role as plucky fighter for "the left", her poisonous habit of conflating criticism with misogyny and the notion that her position on the parapet is useful or realistically accessible to normals, let alone working class women, who she fucking hates.

Personally, though, I think the problem with the British Left is that the people who are meant to be its best and most fervent fighters waste their time on in-fighting, petty bullying and tearing down anyone who puts their head above the parapet. I think the problem with the British Left is that too many of us would rather attack each other and turn our energy outwards. I think the problem with the British Left is that it's riddled with bitterness and barely acknowledged misogyny. And I think that this thread is the perfect example of all of those things.

Where is this parapet? How does one get up there? Which side of it are 'we' on? If parapet people are a bit shit, is there some way to recall them? I agree I should have been clearer. I assumed that those who have followed the thread would have been aware of the reference and the political connotations. I also assumed that other posts I've made on here would indicate that I'm (generally, within reason) supportive of women putting their heads above the parapet, 'our' parapet.

You to display why your misogynist posts, weren't.

And where are these fabled misogyny posts?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

edit: this isn't worth it

 

[rekil]

edit: this isn't worth it

Where are the misogyny posts?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Where are the misogyny posts?

Oh, you want to play?

 

[SpineyNorman]

I thought copliker was just pointing out that Laurie is capable of using her twitter platform to say things that are damaging towards people too. (Although clearly nothing like the horror women must feel when threatened with sexual violence, in fact in no way comparable, it was very upsetting for me and my family. People asking me what the racism was about and me explaining it was unfounded but getting a look that said, 'no smoke without fire' would have been bad enough but when my black ex-partner denied it when asked she says she got a look that made her feel like a victim of domestic abuse covering for her husband it was pretty fucking hard to stomach). Pretty poor timing and I dare say in hindsight he might agree it was badly judged but since I'm not aware of any history of misogyny on his part I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. It's not really up to me obviously but that's the way I saw it - people can choose to ignore it as they wish.

 

[rekil]

No pleasing some people.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

You think that being on the end of false accusations doesn't have real world consequences? Righto. Ask SpineyNorman about what he had to deal with after Ms.Penny very publicly called him a racist. Did I say that threats and accusations are comparable? Nope. Both are intended to have different effects. Is that not obvious?

This 'head above the parapet' rubbish has to stop really.

Misogynist whataboutery as a direct attack on a simple claim of what happens to women when they say something. Start there.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I thought copliker was just pointing out that Laurie is capable of using her twitter platform to say things that are damaging towards people too.

You were wrong.

 

[weepiper]

copliker's no way a misogynist but his considerable and justified dislike of Laurie Penny is getting blurred round the edges by others here.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

copliker's no way a misogynist but his considerable and justified dislike of Laurie Penny is getting blurred round the edges by others here.

It looks to me like it's getting blurred by himself.

 

[weepiper]

It looks to me like it's getting blurred by himself.

No. He means Laurie Penny has to stop using the head above the parapet imagery, because it smacks of some false solidarity, not that he believes women do not experience speaking out as raising our heads above the parapet. Am I right copliker?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

No. He means Laurie Penny has to stop using the head above the parapet imagery, because it smacks of some false solidarity, not that he believes women do not experience speaking out as raising our heads above the parapet. Am I right copliker?

He seems remarkably fucking reticent when it comes to addressing the exact meaning. And remarkably abusive when enquiries take place.

 

[JimW]

He seems remarkably fucking reticent when it comes to addressing the exact meaning. And remarkably abusive when enquiries take place.

You're wrong about him and should wind your fucking neck in.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

You're wrong about him and should wind your fucking neck in.

Am I now. Interesting defence.

 

[andysays]

No. He means Laurie Penny has to stop using the head above the parapet imagery, because it smacks of some false solidarity, not that he believes women do not experience speaking out as raising our heads above the parapet. Am I right copliker?

If that's correct, as it may very well be, it's a shame he didn't make that properly clear a few hours ago when he had the opportunity to.

I haven't seen anything at all which suggests to me that copliker is a misogynist, but given that his comment about parapets came as a direct response to toggle, it's understandable that she interpreted it as a criticism of her argument rather than something LP said previously

 

[DotCommunist]

He seems remarkably fucking reticent when it comes to addressing the exact meaning. And remarkably abusive when enquiries take place.

you should spell that with an I the way you are going on

 

[JimW]

Am I now.

First even vaguely sketchy comment I can recall in interacting with the lad here over several years. He's either hidden it really well or this is more of a misunderstanding than a crime.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

you should spell that with an I the way you are going on

What?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

First even vaguely sketchy comment I can recall in interacting with the lad here over several years. He's either hidden it really well or this is more of a misunderstanding than a crime.

A misunderstanding I and other people have been asking him to address.

Thanks though, handy comment.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Sorry, any more random mates?

 

[JimW]

A misunderstanding I and other people have been asking him to address.

Thanks though, handy comment.

Asking him to address when the conversation's already off the rails and is going to produce more heat than light.

 

[SpineyNorman]

What?

I think it's a reference to the new ink wirry