rekil
to menny cranks
"Woman's problem". Show me where I said that please. Nice use of inverted commas to make it look like a quote from me.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
- Thread starter Prince Rhyus
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"Woman's problem". Show me where I said that please. Nice use of inverted commas to make it look like a quote from me.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
What _are_you saying?
rekil
to menny cranks
Is_it_not_clear_enough? Toggle replied to a post of mine with some strawman nonsense and some words in quotation marks in an attempt to smear me as a great big horrible sexist.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
No, it really isn't clear. It looks to me like you came back at a general point about how women commentators, including LP, get misogynist abuse simply as a matter of course, by talking about her own actions more than once in a way that could very well be taken as justifying the former. Which was why I was asking. Because I'm sure that's not right.
rekil
to menny cranks
Ooooh did I get reported? You are correct. It's not right. I made it clear that I have documented the abuse women get and this was apparently taken to mean that I actually think the abuse women get is not important, a "womans problem" howareyou.
And can this thread title be changed or what.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Especially if the person is a woman. Guaranteed to put her mind totally rest straight away, that is.
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wobbly
Thanks fridgie.
I don't like the woman, I've made that clear on more than one occasion. I think her behaviour in throwing about accusation was atrocious, it is highly damaging to any cause she is purporting to support and she does tend to attach herself to some of the causes I support. I've looked at why she might do that shitscattering (other than being a fucking idiot) in the way of looking at how women can respond to this level of threatening behaviour, certainly not to excuse it.
But saying she is a fucking idiot should not and ever be an excuse to justify the people attempting to silence her through threats of sexual violence. and I do wonder how much of her fuck witted overreactions to criticism are driven by the high level of abuse over a long period.I'd probably be more likely to assume disagreement was abuse if I was getting threats on a daily basis rather than only a small number. (only 4 this week, all within a few minutes of having something I said retweeted by Caroline) gawds only knows how much more crap someone with a 'profile' like Laurie gets.Not excuses, I'll say that again, but if she wasn't subjected to so much being told she needs to be fucked until she bleeds and that will turn her into a proper quiet woman who knows her place is on her knees or in the kitchen, then she might, just might be a little bit less of a fucking idiot.
I doubt it, but she is about the same amount of fucking idiot as someone who actually seems to be arguing that all feminism is and can be is represented by her ideals and that means women looking for equality need to be shut up cause it's all some kind of privilege seeking. hear that copliker? I think you're shit, just cause it's a different texture to laurries, doesn't make yours stink any less.
and my gut feeling is the abuse is added to for any woman who can also be attacked as an 'other' in another way. who may well have less ability to convince journos to support her than Caroline. who doesn't make a nice blond photo opportunity and give a nice well spoken radio interview. and probably has fewer resources to cope with the risks (like packing up and moving to a hotel for a week until you find the bastard that is posting your address online and trying to convince people to join him for a gang rape). That's not the whole story, it's far more complicated than that. but if we as feminists had to spend less time coping with constant threat, then we might have more time to work out how to deal with what should be the important issues, and stopping the othering of some of the most vulnerable women within some feminist circles.
What do I do - not a lot. I write some women's history, and I write a bit of feminist history. I support groups that don't fuck over the vulnerable even more, and tell those that do that they don't speak for me. What I won't do is set myself up as a leader and spokeswoman for the kind of feminism I believe in, cause I'm not Laurie fucking penny speaking for the poor and downtrodden masses. Highlighting online abuse might, just might make a small difference to whether those underrepresented women feel more able to speak for themselves. When more do, I'll hold their coats.
I don't like the woman, I've made that clear on more than one occasion. I think her behaviour in throwing about accusation was atrocious, it is highly damaging to any cause she is purporting to support and she does tend to attach herself to some of the causes I support. I've looked at why she might do that shitscattering (other than being a fucking idiot) in the way of looking at how women can respond to this level of threatening behaviour, certainly not to excuse it.
But saying she is a fucking idiot should not and ever be an excuse to justify the people attempting to silence her through threats of sexual violence. and I do wonder how much of her fuck witted overreactions to criticism are driven by the high level of abuse over a long period.I'd probably be more likely to assume disagreement was abuse if I was getting threats on a daily basis rather than only a small number. (only 4 this week, all within a few minutes of having something I said retweeted by Caroline) gawds only knows how much more crap someone with a 'profile' like Laurie gets.Not excuses, I'll say that again, but if she wasn't subjected to so much being told she needs to be fucked until she bleeds and that will turn her into a proper quiet woman who knows her place is on her knees or in the kitchen, then she might, just might be a little bit less of a fucking idiot.
I doubt it, but she is about the same amount of fucking idiot as someone who actually seems to be arguing that all feminism is and can be is represented by her ideals and that means women looking for equality need to be shut up cause it's all some kind of privilege seeking. hear that copliker? I think you're shit, just cause it's a different texture to laurries, doesn't make yours stink any less.
and my gut feeling is the abuse is added to for any woman who can also be attacked as an 'other' in another way. who may well have less ability to convince journos to support her than Caroline. who doesn't make a nice blond photo opportunity and give a nice well spoken radio interview. and probably has fewer resources to cope with the risks (like packing up and moving to a hotel for a week until you find the bastard that is posting your address online and trying to convince people to join him for a gang rape). That's not the whole story, it's far more complicated than that. but if we as feminists had to spend less time coping with constant threat, then we might have more time to work out how to deal with what should be the important issues, and stopping the othering of some of the most vulnerable women within some feminist circles.
What do I do - not a lot. I write some women's history, and I write a bit of feminist history. I support groups that don't fuck over the vulnerable even more, and tell those that do that they don't speak for me. What I won't do is set myself up as a leader and spokeswoman for the kind of feminism I believe in, cause I'm not Laurie fucking penny speaking for the poor and downtrodden masses. Highlighting online abuse might, just might make a small difference to whether those underrepresented women feel more able to speak for themselves. When more do, I'll hold their coats.
rekil
to menny cranks
Nobody here has suggested that violent threats against women are justified. Well there was Firky and his fucking shit cartoon which he refused to apologise for. Why he wasn't banned for that let alone his latest shenanigans is beyond me.
EDIT: Actually that's unfair. I don't know if you're shit or not. I know literally nothing about you apart from your last few bizarre posts. But I note that you're just as happy to be as dishonest as LP and misrepresent what people say. And that is unfortunate. So, all the best.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
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you should know me well enough through my obsessive posting habit to ken I am not a prat. Well maybe a bit. But not in the manner of chauvinism and so on. The reason I say that is cos I see a misunderstanding here, resulting from ambiguities of language. Yeah that happens as ye know. Its an art not a science etc.
Recon you got the wrong end of the stick is all. That'll be my last word on the matter.
you should know me well enough through my obsessive posting habit to ken I am not a prat. Well maybe a bit. But not in the manner of chauvinism and so on. The reason I say that is cos I see a misunderstanding here, resulting from ambiguities of language. Yeah that happens as ye know. Its an art not a science etc.
Recon you got the wrong end of the stick is all. That'll be my last word on the matter.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
thats not how I read it. Anyway I said that was all I was going to say. I just think theres been a pointless falling out here. I'll not bother again cos anything I do say will be 'explaining' like I'm some sort of cunt. Sort it out between yerselves.
in twitter news, they have issued new abuse guidelines
https://support.twitter.com/groups/...afety-center/articles/15794-abusive-behavior#
dont feed the trolls seems to be the line, which is likely to piss off a lot of people
I understand the argument why should it just be ignored, people not fight back etc, but everytime someone bites I also cringe a bit because I know whoever is doing it is probably laughing their tits off, joking about it on forums (trolls have forums I found one once) and its all a big game to them. I think some of the talk about silencing isn't really addressing whats going on, which is abuse of anyone in the public eye, including men but more often women, in a way which can cause the most offence for the lulz - its like teenage boys writing fuck on a park bench, or on another level the type of stuff frankie boyle does is a sanitised version
there is a culture amongst some young men of trying to outdo each other by being offensive, I remember it all too well from the playground and it would use sexual violence, misogyny, racism, whatever was taboo and now they can go on twitter and do it and get instant feedback
(possibly not explaining this v well, am not acting as an apologist for it, or saying its the only thing going on, but i recognise this behaviour from some people ive known)
https://support.twitter.com/groups/...afety-center/articles/15794-abusive-behavior#
dont feed the trolls seems to be the line, which is likely to piss off a lot of people
I understand the argument why should it just be ignored, people not fight back etc, but everytime someone bites I also cringe a bit because I know whoever is doing it is probably laughing their tits off, joking about it on forums (trolls have forums I found one once) and its all a big game to them. I think some of the talk about silencing isn't really addressing whats going on, which is abuse of anyone in the public eye, including men but more often women, in a way which can cause the most offence for the lulz - its like teenage boys writing fuck on a park bench, or on another level the type of stuff frankie boyle does is a sanitised version
there is a culture amongst some young men of trying to outdo each other by being offensive, I remember it all too well from the playground and it would use sexual violence, misogyny, racism, whatever was taboo and now they can go on twitter and do it and get instant feedback
(possibly not explaining this v well, am not acting as an apologist for it, or saying its the only thing going on, but i recognise this behaviour from some people ive known)
rekil
to menny cranks
Nobody told you to shut up or said that abuse of women isn't important.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
No, there wasn't a report, I was just wandering through threads as I do occasionally. I'm afraid that I still don't see how your opposition to the idea of women being attacked for "putting their head above the ramparts" works on the basis of SN having been accused by LP of racism; that seems entirely irrelevant to me.
i can't believe you just said that. you insensitive fuck
*flashbacks to the horror that was bis's music*
(will trying to lighten all this with shit humour work?
)
rekil
to menny cranks
There are different ways to abuse people. Only an eejit would infer that acknowledging LP's penchant for malicious accusations is tantamount to an attempt to justify threats on women. Funny how I never got a reply to my question about whether being accused by public figures of this or that has real consequences. I concede I should have been much clearer about the 'parapet' business. Guilty of taking people's views for granted a bit there.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Well golly gee, I guess I'm an eejit then. I'm most awfully fucking sorry. Thanks for that, it really clears everything up.
rekil
to menny cranks
You're lucky to get that much. You know the reason this is an issue at all right?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I suppose I _am_ a proper internet defined bloke.
rekil
to menny cranks
Do you actually read the thread before jumping in with this sort of thing? I know it's huge but ffs.
.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Yes that was the only thing you said.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
strike a fucking light, thats beneath you
This is blowhard bullshit, and I'm leaving this thread until it becomes either amusing or relevant again.
Malcom Harris will be wanking into his sock to see this disgraceful show. Or maybe lolicon will be his stimuli of choice. Either way, this is crap
rekil
to menny cranks
I think FM may be posting from the pub, in which case I pardon him a bit. I can hardly make out what he's trying to say tbh.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Maybe this 'head above the parapet' rubbish does have to stop really.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
That works, well done.
rekil
to menny cranks
What do you want.
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