Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Are you fucking serious?? Why?
Time stamp is only useful if you know how long it took a person to type their post and if they went to the loo / made a coffee / petted the dog or whatever 
q
You've got me intrigued now, maybe I was a bit harsh. I just saw "BBC 3" and some lass turning her nose up when a bunch of kids from a shanty town gave her a cuddle and getting quite visibly upset in Greece - which I don't believe were 'real' tears. I can't imagine her being anything like Theroux but you have me interested enough to watch her and see if she still reminds me of LP. I bet she does though ¬
You can tell immediately she's not one of the Oxbridge types anyway, not with that accent, cor blimey. It's real too (to my northern ears at least)
qYou've got me intrigued now, maybe I was a bit harsh. I just saw "BBC 3" and some lass turning her nose up when a bunch of kids from a shanty town gave her a cuddle and getting quite visibly upset in Greece - which I don't believe were 'real' tears. I can't imagine her being anything like Theroux but you have me interested enough to watch her and see if she still reminds me of LP. I bet she does though ¬
You can tell immediately she's not one of the Oxbridge types anyway, not with that accent, cor blimey. It's real too (to my northern ears at least)
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
in cases of dispute it comes down to the time stamp obviously
anyway don't want a fight about it, i've argued with owen jones, sonia poulton, deborah orr and philip hensher this week, normals don't really do it for me anymore
Why is it OK for the New Statesman's Laurie Penny to ignore professional advice from MH workers regarding a man who is feeling suicidal but not Ms Dooley?
http://www.newstatesman.com/broadcast/2012/07/bbc3-documentary-broke-all-rules-reporting-suicide
http://www.newstatesman.com/broadcast/2012/07/bbc3-documentary-broke-all-rules-reporting-suicide
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
There's still an agenda behind the programmes, and that agenda is still set by the 'liberal elite'. But she is a breath of fresh air, IMO. There's a humanity about her that comes from not having pre-judged the issue or assuming she already knows everything there is to be said and, like Theroux, she lets people tell their own stories.Maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
In other words, presented by a young working-class person. How dare she presume to investigate the problems of other young working-class people.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
You're right. It is the only conceivable reason why a woman off the telly might get praise. It's not like she's gonna be good for anything else.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Because I doubt Stacey Dooley was, or currently is, working for the New Statesman. Laurie Penny certainly was, hence it's something that the seniors at the NS won't touch with a bargepole unless they have to.
In other words, presented by a young working-class person. How dare she presume to investigate the problems of other young working-class people.
I can't be arsed to do it from my tablet but I'll do it tomorrow if I remember, and that is to take the points raised in that article and apply them to the ones in LP's article regarding the suicidal man.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Mind if I rip it off and publish it on a blog under my own byline before blaming the whole mess on a sloppy sub-editor?
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Do what you want you latte slurping nob.
I Hate having to use smilies all the time so people understand you're tkaing the piss.
Annoying, isn't it, the over-use of smilies.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
That description of the show looks pretty grim, I don't know who she is really, but she's not a voice for the left on Newsnight, Women's hour, Sky News, major published media etc. Perhaps her work be discussed in the TV forum?
Laurie Penny, prominent voice of modern socialism:
feminists [inspired by Pussy Riot] are "amplifying the rebellion in their own hearts, and we're talking about our countries and our lives wherever women and young I first came to anti-capitalism thourgh feminism and I first came to it as a child too young to understand what either of those things meant. But it always seemed logical to me that the root of women's oppression was economic, and the root of economic oppression was capitalist. Sorry I'm going back through my notes because I've changed it around a little bit. Um but right now it's really we're told aren't we that women have come far enough and it's important to have this kind of perspective so at my age fifty years ago at my age um 26 my grandmother was a recent immigrant with five kids and another one on the way and she was shackled by a religion to a violent alcoholic husband who she'd married in wartime to escape the Ireland where she lived and she wouldn't have called herself a feminist but feminism was what began has begun to win for me and my sisters - I mean my actual sisters not my theoretical sisters - the birthright of all women in the 21st century which is the one the birthright that women and sorry the birthright that conservatives across the world are actively trying to confiscate right now, which is the right to freedom from domestic drudgery and sexual violence the right not to have to rely on a man to keep you, the right to live your life without worrying whether or not you are pretty enough or well behaved enough to stop your boss or your husband getting sick of you, the right to be socially, sexually, financially independent. And I wonder if the yearning I get when, is anybody else here a sci-fi nerd [audience response] yeah yeah I watch a lot of Battlestar Galactica and um I find myself, oh I love Starbuck I love me some Starbuck, but um, sorry, but when, does anybody get that feeling when you watch battles in space or those films of space battles when you think oh I'm not quite sure what it is I'm wanting and that impossible yearning is what I imagine that my grandmother and women her age felt watch people like me going to university and having boyfriends before marriage, travelling to other countries and dancing all night and wearing your short skirts and for her and for women like her my life and our lives are science fiction, it's weird and it's frightening and it's enabled by technology and I see women of my generation handling it as casually as an extra on Star Trek might handle one of those palm computers on Star Trek that looked exciting in the 1970s and now they look like Nokia Smartphones from 1999."
"So here we go... Yeah, slutwalks! Who was on the slutwalk? Oh come on [audience response] Yeah, yeah, great, great, slutwalks were brilliant, and um again it's I was lucky enough to, I was lucky enough to speak at the slutwalks last year and the slutwalks for me were for me they seemed like the beginning of an enhanced consciousness about sexual freedom and social freedom for women because suddenly you had young women and old women women all across the world reacting suddenly to this idea that we should not wear short skirts if we don't want to be raped that a police officer in Toronto [said] suddenly it seemed like saying enough that's it that's just the last little thing and there was this massive upsurge of women and men all over the world and it was like nothing else but a pride march, a pride march is what it was about the acceptance of fighting for women's right to be sexual, to live freely like men do, to not live in fear of rape and sexual violence, and the newspapers didn't report this enough but it was massively keyed into anti-austerity to anti-capitalism as the feminist movement originally always was there we go it was joyful and it was brilliant, and it's absolutely an indictment on how inadequate bourgeois middle-class feminism has become that there were columnists and organisers across the UK and the US saying we're not sluts we don't want to be sluts what are they saying and this is disgraceful we're nice women oooh nno no slut is a really important word I'm so glad people are taking it back, in the way we took queer back because the original meaning of the word slut was a domestic drudge, a servant the idea that women who are underpaid and lowpaid and working as servants. The idea of slut pride is also about working-class pride. It's about taking something that is tossed to us and made to make us feel small and ashamed and taking that back and saying no this is how we want to live our lives we need to be able to do it freely without punishment and yeeaah. Anybody who that is? Anybody recognise her? That's Selma James who is the leader of the, who originated the wages for housework campaign back in 1972 um and has been active in the anti-racist and women's movements for over fifty years I was actually lucky enough to interview her last week and I've got that in the New Statesman this week if you wanna read it or just read it online, no I didn't say that but that's what I do So she Selma James is one of these people whose ideas are coming back into fashion because what she's always said is that money and economics and power are what the women's movement are really about that's what sexual freedom is about that's what gender revolution is about"
Laurie Penny, prominent voice of modern socialism:
feminists [inspired by Pussy Riot] are "amplifying the rebellion in their own hearts, and we're talking about our countries and our lives wherever women and young I first came to anti-capitalism thourgh feminism and I first came to it as a child too young to understand what either of those things meant. But it always seemed logical to me that the root of women's oppression was economic, and the root of economic oppression was capitalist. Sorry I'm going back through my notes because I've changed it around a little bit. Um but right now it's really we're told aren't we that women have come far enough and it's important to have this kind of perspective so at my age fifty years ago at my age um 26 my grandmother was a recent immigrant with five kids and another one on the way and she was shackled by a religion to a violent alcoholic husband who she'd married in wartime to escape the Ireland where she lived and she wouldn't have called herself a feminist but feminism was what began has begun to win for me and my sisters - I mean my actual sisters not my theoretical sisters - the birthright of all women in the 21st century which is the one the birthright that women and sorry the birthright that conservatives across the world are actively trying to confiscate right now, which is the right to freedom from domestic drudgery and sexual violence the right not to have to rely on a man to keep you, the right to live your life without worrying whether or not you are pretty enough or well behaved enough to stop your boss or your husband getting sick of you, the right to be socially, sexually, financially independent. And I wonder if the yearning I get when, is anybody else here a sci-fi nerd [audience response] yeah yeah I watch a lot of Battlestar Galactica and um I find myself, oh I love Starbuck I love me some Starbuck, but um, sorry, but when, does anybody get that feeling when you watch battles in space or those films of space battles when you think oh I'm not quite sure what it is I'm wanting and that impossible yearning is what I imagine that my grandmother and women her age felt watch people like me going to university and having boyfriends before marriage, travelling to other countries and dancing all night and wearing your short skirts and for her and for women like her my life and our lives are science fiction, it's weird and it's frightening and it's enabled by technology and I see women of my generation handling it as casually as an extra on Star Trek might handle one of those palm computers on Star Trek that looked exciting in the 1970s and now they look like Nokia Smartphones from 1999."
"So here we go... Yeah, slutwalks! Who was on the slutwalk? Oh come on [audience response] Yeah, yeah, great, great, slutwalks were brilliant, and um again it's I was lucky enough to, I was lucky enough to speak at the slutwalks last year and the slutwalks for me were for me they seemed like the beginning of an enhanced consciousness about sexual freedom and social freedom for women because suddenly you had young women and old women women all across the world reacting suddenly to this idea that we should not wear short skirts if we don't want to be raped that a police officer in Toronto [said] suddenly it seemed like saying enough that's it that's just the last little thing and there was this massive upsurge of women and men all over the world and it was like nothing else but a pride march, a pride march is what it was about the acceptance of fighting for women's right to be sexual, to live freely like men do, to not live in fear of rape and sexual violence, and the newspapers didn't report this enough but it was massively keyed into anti-austerity to anti-capitalism as the feminist movement originally always was there we go it was joyful and it was brilliant, and it's absolutely an indictment on how inadequate bourgeois middle-class feminism has become that there were columnists and organisers across the UK and the US saying we're not sluts we don't want to be sluts what are they saying and this is disgraceful we're nice women oooh nno no slut is a really important word I'm so glad people are taking it back, in the way we took queer back because the original meaning of the word slut was a domestic drudge, a servant the idea that women who are underpaid and lowpaid and working as servants. The idea of slut pride is also about working-class pride. It's about taking something that is tossed to us and made to make us feel small and ashamed and taking that back and saying no this is how we want to live our lives we need to be able to do it freely without punishment and yeeaah. Anybody who that is? Anybody recognise her? That's Selma James who is the leader of the, who originated the wages for housework campaign back in 1972 um and has been active in the anti-racist and women's movements for over fifty years I was actually lucky enough to interview her last week and I've got that in the New Statesman this week if you wanna read it or just read it online, no I didn't say that but that's what I do So she Selma James is one of these people whose ideas are coming back into fashion because what she's always said is that money and economics and power are what the women's movement are really about that's what sexual freedom is about that's what gender revolution is about"
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
rekil
to menny cranks
I liked this bit at about 10 mins in. The 'ums' have been removed.
Cue pics on the massive screen of Molly's mad painting of Laura, Clare Solomon and various fellow posho mates.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I was watching Star Trek before she was even a twinkle. Actually right back slap in the middle of second wave feminism. But I can't remember equating Star Trek to the women's movement.
Hmm. I'd have a fraction more time for that sort of analogy if she was reading Sherri Tepper or Le Guin tbh.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Spokespeople? Shouldn't that have been spokespersons? 
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