Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

Slut's non-sexual working-class (servant, domestic worker) meaning died out in the 17th century.
The sexual meaning alongside slattern preceded that meaning and is still in use today alongside and since the 19th century words derived from slut like sluttish and 20th century slutty.

More generally, I find the idea that 'slut' is the female opposite of what (presumably working-class) men do to be inaccurate and absurd.

Some - and it is not all by any means in non-heterosexual communities - tried to use it meaning proudly polyamorous ie having multiple partners at the same time - in the 1990s.

Weirdo liberal professor Slavoj Zizek once tried to reclaim the word 'terror' - that the left should be proudly and openly calling itself 'terrorist'.

 

[cesare]

no, you can be captain kirk

I found out this week that Gene Roddenberry was accused of only writing in Lieutenant Uhura cos they were having an affair

 

[Firky]

Weirdo liberal professor Slavoj Zizek

I just started a thread on his Pervert's Guide to the Cinema.



http://www.thepervertsguide.com/about.html

 

[Idris2002]

S

Weirdo liberal professor Slavoj Zizek once tried to reclaim the word 'terror' - that the left should be proudly and openly calling itself 'terrorist'.

I'm always amused by the way people don't get that Zizek is engaged in a total wind-up and piss-take.

 

[el-ahrairah]

I believe Bindel's also annoyed that she's being mistaken for Burchill.

wouldn't you be?

 

[el-ahrairah]

I don't agree that women are being chased out off the internet at all. Where's her evidence that any women, let alone those on the left, have been 'chased off ' in this way?

I believe her. Because I've got a number of friends involved in feminist campaigning and have seen the levels of abuse they get, blogs taken down by hacking, people following them around the internet trying to shut down debate or misrepresent them etc. It was certainly an eye-opener.

 

[el-ahrairah]

You fancy her.

Don't have these docu reality TV stars start off as runners for the BBC or is that a myth?

Pretty much true, from what I'm told.

 

[frogwoman]

i think the slutwalks were a good idea fwiw. but come on the likes of laurie are just as likely to slag off people for the way they dress as anyone.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I believe her. Because I've got a number of friends involved in feminist campaigning and have seen the levels of abuse they get, blogs taken down by hacking, people following them around the internet trying to shut down debate or misrepresent them etc. It was certainly an eye-opener.

Yeah I agree with this - I have no doubt that she does get some really disturbing shit sent to her and I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to just accept it. What pisses me off is the way she seems to be trying to imply that this thread is a part of that. Even the most ill-considered post on here doesn't deserve to be lumped in with that shite.

 

[el-ahrairah]

Yeah I agree with this - I have no doubt that she does get some really disturbing shit sent to her and I don't blame her one bit for not wanting to just accept it. What pisses me off is the way she seems to be trying to imply that this thread is a part of that. Even the most ill-considered post on here doesn't deserve to be lumped in with that shite.

well, because to her this thread is all a part of it. Remember, to her everyone who doesn't agree with her is either a misogynist or not a real feminist. There is no other alternative. To her there is absolutely no difference between disagreement with her politics and hatred of women. Because she is right. Therefore any criticism must be misogyny.

 

[SpineyNorman]

well, because to her this thread is all a part of it. Remember, to her everyone who doesn't agree with her is either a misogynist or not a real feminist. There is no other alternative. To her there is absolutely no difference between disagreement with her politics and hatred of women. Because she is right. Therefore any criticism must be misogyny.

I don't know whether you're half joking there but I think that's exactly how she sees things.

 

[Balbi]

Slutwalks are new, and therefore involve her, and therefore are a good thing. In on the ground floor style stock speculation. Especially given the old guard of Burchill, Bindel and Moore are having some issues adopting to the e-wifi-blogcast-podtooth age of direct analysis and criticism of their work.

Calculating.

 

[Balbi]

Um, actually I really believe in the struggle and think my work is IMPORTANT in ensuring a comfortable career platform until I get Brute'd and shuffle off to the Mail.

 

[Bakunin]

Um, actually I really believe in the struggle and think my work is IMPORTANT in ensuring a comfortable career platform until I get Brute'd and shuffle off to the Mail.

'These are my inviolate, deeply-held principles, readers. But if you don't like them, I've got others...'

 

[Balbi]

Highlights the odd point of view from a few journalists, that their radical youth and ideologies excuses their defiant ignoring/criticising of the radical youth and their ideologies of today. They did their work in the seventies and eighties, and are still fighting those issues - which do need to be fought, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

Considering a line of enquiry as to how seriously the columnists claiming 'language policing' take the issues they approach - or are they just using them as a basis to hang a few jokes and a bit of self-reference off? I am pretty certain that's trolling though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the number of people on ESA/IB (which is what he's talking about) has been falling consistently for over ten years

Probably falling for the old swizz where claimant count is cited and represented as recipient count (about 500,000-700,000+ less).

 

[Steel Icarus]

We need to take back the net like we had a take back the night because, um oh I just, just made that up, let's copyright it.

For what reason? Either she thinks things she says in conversation are so great they should be hers alone, or cos there's money to be made there? That's a great tell, that - bank manager on speed dial.

 

[Balbi]

 

[DaveCinzano]

Tangentially:

http://storify.com/AlexanderVelky/my-protest-history/

 

[Captain Hurrah]

 

[cesare]

 

[Balbi]

That's ace

 

[Firky]

Amazing

 

[el-ahrairah]

arf.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Tangentially:

http://storify.com/AlexanderVelky/my-protest-history/

So all that that shows is that Velky did not understand the politics of the day - which is still the politics of today. The purpose of the petition was to enable his local SWP to collect up names and addresses for potential recruitment. He was not suitable recruiting material though and self selected his way out of that.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

#I first came to anti-capitalism thourgh feminism and I first came to it as a child too young to understand what either of those things meant. #

...and to young too realise that the Lib Dems weren't a major force in the struggle against capitalism? Or was the Lib Dem period brought on after her childhood radicalism had been tamed by Oxford? Odd...I think most people's politics reach their radical and 'egalitarian' peak during their late teens and early twenties, particularly as students. She seems to be claiming her own political trajectory went...

Instinctive childhood anti capitalism and proto-feminism...Lib Dem early twenties...sudden conversion to a sort of anarcho-femo-"individuarian"-"socialism" and 'voice of the left'

...which is odd, unless of course...drumroll...it's more retrospective fantasising.

There are a couple of things that may account for it, mind, and I genuinely don't know.

a) was the Sussex stockbroker belt a hotbed of Trotskyist agitation in the early 90s...amongst the per-teens?
b) does Oxford have a record of moderating the politics of radical socialist undergraduates, converting them to an accommodationist and gradualist orthodoxy, which they reject a few years after graduation when the inheritance has been spent?

I genuinely don't know the answer to these questions. If the answer is yes, then her account would be credible.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

This is a bit fucked up. In fact that's full- on fucked up.

However, on the off chance she tweeted that out the blue, seemingly apropos of nothing much, I conclude that she may have been reading this thread and decided to demonstrate that she really does get hateful misogynistic abuse. Not sure that it tells us much about the volume of such stuff, but it's hard to deny that one's a fuckin outrage. In fact, I'm not sure it isn't actionable. That said, she still needs to persuade that it's that sorta stuff she's on about and not reasonable criticism; and I still think the incongruity of her background and her stated beliefs and their supposed motivation is a legitimate topic of discussion.

Also, supposing the appearance of that comment following recent posts on here is not a coincidence...and she seems influenced by it...I think it's about time I let her in on a secret that she might like to share with her wealthy fan base...

The true benchmark of socialist ideological purity and working class chic is ownership of Ronnie Rubashov's 1998 Fiesta. Only 167000 miles and a snip at £15000. Also, the largish dent on the near-side wing was the result of a wild kick by Hugo Chavez on his recent visit to Middlesbrough. It was a spontaneous reaction to news of the French intervention in Mali. I was a bit pissed off but he touched me on the shoulder and said: "sorry Ron mate, but Westen Imperial arrogance gets me that way. I replied "nada, Hugo mate, I feel your pain." It's virtually a socialist icon, would look good in Shoreditch and, anyway, two wipers and third gear are overrated virtues...if not bourgeois pretentious as far as I'm concerned.

 

[sihhi]

This is a bit fucked up. In fact that's full- on fucked up.

However, on the off chance she tweeted that out the blue, seemingly apropos of nothing much, I conclude that she may have been reading this thread and decided to demonstrate that she really does get hateful misogynistic abuse. Not sure that it tells us much about the volume of such stuff, but it's hard to deny that one's a fuckin outrage. In fact, I'm not sure it isn't actionable. That said, she still needs to persuade that it's that sorta stuff she's on about and not reasonable criticism; and I still think the incongruity of her background and her stated beliefs and their supposed motivation is a legitimate topic of discussion.

Ricardo - the owner of the site is a fucking rightwing idiot

As posted earlier:

80% of people are stupid. As long as you always bear this in mind, most things make sense.
- Ricardo (22/12/12 12:12, 13:12 HGT) Report as offensive

Bendy face is on QI sneering at Christianity. I look forward to him ridiculing Islam during Eid. Or I would if he wasn't a cowardly fucking worm.
- Ricardo (21/12/12 22:38, 23:38 HGT) Reply Report as offensive

Everything about him screams sneering misogynistic idiot.

I saw this a couple of weeks ago whilst gym bound. Well, well, luv a duck and bless my soul. Some silly slag of a girl accused another unconvincing pupil of rape. Now, I had always assumed that under such circumstances a school would immediately call the police, who would arrive, take statements and carry out a thorough medical examination. Not so, it would seem. I now know that the correct procedure is for everyone to run around the corridors in a Benny Hillesque fashion and shout at each other without troubling either the parents or the law. It's essential for at least one dinner lady to be involved in the fracas too. In fact, by law you must have a speaker system equiped that plays this, the minute somebody gets raped.
- Ricardo (18/11/09 21:34, 22:34 HGT) Reply Report as offensive

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...lebInfo.php?celeb_id=5587+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

'Ha ha ha. Police sort out rapists, nothing to see here.'

The site has always had a problem with all feminists (or people who might be like Mary Beard) not just Laurie Penny

This exchange over Germaine Greer sums up the site - if you try and break the consensus over feminists-are-dumb-*********s this is what happens:

most of the comments above are f*cking disgusting, whether or not you like germaine greer (and i doubt any of you actually know her) is no excuse to make immature, pathetic jokes about rape. scum the lot of you.
- Guest (02/10/11 17:01, 18:01 HGT) Reply Report as offensive
Fuck off and get over it. Who'd rape that cunt anyway?
- Honest George (02/10/11 17:20, 18:20 HGT) Report as offensive

Cache here http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QXjZIi9c4Y8J:www.dont-start-me-off.com/CelebInfo.php?celeb_id=222&SHOW_OLD_COMMENTS=true &cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk


I'll stress again my posts about LP and anyone else posted on this thread is to highlight left-wing (and personal) hypocrisy (something which all genders can be guilty of):- living the life, using 'the movement' below you to propel you.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

I'll stress again my posts about LP and anyone else posted on this thread is to highlight left-wing (and personal) hypocrisy (something which all genders can be guilty of):- living the life, using 'the movement' below you to propel you.

Well yeah. All true, except...and I may be guilty of projection here and a touch of generalisation...is the movement really from 'below' as such? I'm sure when EP Thompson talked of 'history from below' he wasn't talking about about the 'struggle' of a bunch of middle-class hangers-on and hipster radicals. I think she serves as a kind of style guide in this sense. There is doubtless a considerable mass of bright qualified, largely middle-class, young people who've found themselves in a kind of stasis career-wise and feel a sense of justified grievance and resentment...understandably. But there's no reason why they shouldn't ground their dissent in these terms.

Ironically, their 'voices' seem to be doing very nicely expressing something else entirely: a sort of weird critique which largely swerves the obvious economic analysis and instead paints a narrative that's an amorphous mash-up of identity politics, pseudo-anarchism and a working-class aesthetic; albeit an idealised bourgeois version of that aesthetic.

 

[sihhi]

Well yeah. All true, except...and I may be guilty of projection here and a touch of generalisation...is the movement really from 'below' as such? I'm sure when EP Thompson talked of 'history from below' he wasn't talking about about the 'struggle' of a bunch of middle-class hangers-on and hipster radicals.

I don't see the relevace of EPT.
There were many people, most of them not from places like Lewes, who took part in student demos - but only a few got selected to write left-wing columns that featured the phrase 'my generation'.


UK Uncut is a bit different that always had a weird nostalgia middle-class nerve centre controlling its publicity.