Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
- Thread starter Prince Rhyus
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Seriously...what the fuck are you talking about? You think we all live in Cheltnam? Get up to Croxteth, Peterlee, Southbank, Grangetown then read the hand wringing shite in the liberal press on intersectionality without either laughing, wanting to gag or thinking you're deluded.
FridgeMagnet
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Did you read an article about Hackney in the Guardian? Or watch one of those Professor Green videos maybe.
Yes...but the wife can't. And the kids can't. And after dark, all bets are off. I live in Middlesbrough. Look it up...it's a fuckin joke. Then look up "Cleveland Police"...and think what 'calling the cavalry' amounts to. Wake up.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It's not so bad during the day, but then we live right on the high street so there's not much of a journey and it's busy enough to feel safe. At night, it feels threatening. The boy does most of the after dark shop trips because of it, and there's always an incident. Sometimes it's the black kids facing down the Poles, sometimes it's blokes asking him where to find a prostitute, sometimes it's a racist giving him shit.
One of the poorest boroughs in the country. What do you think it's like?
Fuck off. Come and have a look if you like. In fact, go out on your own for an hour or two then tell me I'm making it up. In fact reassure me I'm just being 'dramatic'.
FridgeMagnet
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ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
What?
Actually, I withdraw the "fuck off". That was out of order. But I stand by the rest. And I'm used to it.
You're doubting my everyday reality and if you want to come and see it, feel free.
Where do you live btw?
sounds pretty familiar to me, colourfully expressed but ive lived in places like that, not many places in london like that, but when i was younger a walk through where i lived late at night regularly involved some sort of uninvited confrontation, no reason to think its any different now
FridgeMagnet
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Come on - "any walk down the road, trip to the shops, walk to school involves me, the missus and the kids facing threats from any number of smack-head cunts". This is not real. This is Death Wish shit.
Ooooh the missus
Totally. I think you're coming across as a bit naive about this tbh fridgey.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I lived (albeit briefly) in what I was later told was the dodgiest part of Brixton and never felt threatened. I can't be sure how much is due to my rapidly disappearing naivety after growing up in a village with a population of less than 70 but this is the first time in my life that I have felt reluctant to go out alone at night, and the first time the boy has actively tried to stop me.
London is not the rest of the country.
A (then) mate of mine once battered some poor guy in Peterborough town centre because he was wearing a poncho
No it isn't. Where do you live? Apart from anything else, you seem to think Hackney is the be-all-and -end-all of social dysfunction. Hate to break it to you, but Hackney is the liberal press's idea of 'rough'. Diane Abbott lives in Hackney FFS.
Get up to the less publicised parts of any Northern city and take a pleasant stroll after dark for an hour or two.
I'm perfectly aware this is turning into a 4 Yorkshireman scenario, but I've fuckin bitten now and either you're telling me I'm a liar or you're telling me I'm being dramatic. I'm telling you I'm being objective. It's pure shite where I live. I'd move tomorrow if I could and I'm late 40s and looking at old age like a turkey looks at Christmas.
FridgeMagnet
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I really did LOL at that.
I'll concede I may be over egging on my own behalf, but I'm 6' 3", 16 stone and not at all flabby. I've got a 14 year old daughter. When she goes out, I'm a nervous fuckin wreck...with good reason.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Well, it's true.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
I think wires might have been crossed here.
Sexist (or racist etc etc) abuse and stereotyping is unacceptable in any form.
LP - as a woman - is not part of a minority - but part of a 'half'.
The question is how it should be handled online and in real life.
No one could not support a scenario where racist or sexist postings were wiped clean by a "take back the net" campaign as suggested by LP, however the roots of the thing lie in the socialisation of the family, and right-wing politics. right-wing internet sites contain the most sexism by far, unsurprisingly - I see anti-socialism as the fundamental basis on which sexism, racism etc are moulded.
Here's the centre right - in the form of Guido Fawkes - laughing about a male Golden Dawn striking a female KKE MP.
I count around a score of sexist comments, up to a dozen racist or chauvinist ones.
http://order-order.com/2012/06/07/greek-extremists-attack-each-other-literally/
Again as with DSMO, when someone urges a shade of sanity they are pounced:
If you go on the far right obviously it's amplified significantly:- Warning far right
http://vnnfo rum.com/showthread.php?t=139845
I don't see it on the left on the internet to any comparable degree - either the centre left or the far left - the ideas or their implications of postings can of course sexist or racist, but I get little sense of sustained rape myths, sex or race-based put downs or jokes.
So I see it as largely a right-wing arseholes problem. The struggle against internet sexism can only really win by real life struggle against sexism and capitalism which is why I disagree with LP declaring that the "internet which is where we organise" - if that's the case then it's a losing endeavour. The internet is where I have a bit of think on politics, where I laugh at political clowns but that's it - that's all I'm interested in really. Organisation on the internet not gonna happen - trying to go on these rightwing sites or on twitter to stop these people posting or sending stupid emails is something of a wild goose chase.
There will always be internet inbox 'hate' or threats - don't want to compare it to real life spitting, swearing, loud guffawing race-based laughter in the open, attacks, burglaries, strikebreaker threats, because they are different things, all those things are different things. But If we give one another confidence to carry on, then the effects of racist or sexist internet postings can be overcome, while the real battle beyond can be waged, victory in which will wipe away the human disgraces.
On London areas, whilst most areas are absolutely fine, sub-areas can be a different story - the wrong cul-de-sac in Northumberland Park where you live, or the wrong lawn and side alley by a block in Upper Edmonton and you will get it immediately from kids/teenagers/sometimes older, ongoing intermittent verbal molestation, threats, goading, baiting physical behaviour (litter, stone tossing) from early evening onwards - always making your kids go in twos, never letting women unaccompanied. But another cul-de-sac a few streets down might be completely fine.
PS: There's zero evidence to suppose LP has looked at this thread in making her twitter posts - this thread is just a look at what these people have been doing. LP spoke about slutwalks being working-class pride at the LSE talk, it's hardly surprising to discuss promote an old article about "slut-shaming" on twitter. There's no reason for obsession about any media figure, only those obsessed with the modern media (guilty as charged) would find it any more than 'noteworthy but meh'.
A (then) mate of mine once battered some poor guy in Peterborough town centre because he was wearing a poncho
i'm trying not to post this, but that is kind of fair enough
No, you numpty. I mean that you're obsessed with her. That's it. Not with what she represents. That's how it comes across to me.
It was 1989 and Peterborough wasnt exactly cosmopolitan. My mate seemed to take it as a personal affront.
It took me another five years but i escaped in the end
In fact...what the fuck is this thread about? You all just jealous cos LP got the gig you were after? She pisses me off cos I'm living in a modern day Dickensian East End and any chance of a political reprieve is sliding down the plug hole...mainly because the likes of her don't even know about me and would treat me like something she trod in. Why head for the North East when Athens is on the cards?..and since she's 'the left' these days, me and hundreds of thousands of others don't exist, don't count and only get a mention when a small but vocal bunch of islamophobic gobshites decide to smash up some shops. That's what I am to the liberal media...a potential EDF thug.
Well that's you, you fuckin prick. Have a look and see what percentage of my posts mention her directly. I don't know what you'd discover..tell me. then again, fucked if I care how I 'come across to you' tbh...it's all about what she represents, and what she represents isn't doing me or anyone else any favours.
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