Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Firky]

She hates her young age being brought into it - apart from when she uses it as an excuse to get out of something.

Dunno who said it but it was along the lines of, "a patronising child who hates being patronised."

 

[weepiper]

the archetypal facilitator, organizer in these new movements is an educated young woman taking the lead, speaking, and that was true. On every march and every occupation in those first weeks and months of the new movements, certainly in the UK, young smart women and girls were there as spokespeople as facilitators as leaders.

Is it just me that hears the implicit sneer at working class women here?

 

[equationgirl]

I was watching Star Trek before she was even a twinkle. Actually right back slap in the middle of second wave feminism. But I can't remember equating Star Trek to the women's movement.

Hmm. I'd have a fraction more time for that sort of analogy if she was reading Sherri Tepper or Le Guin tbh.

I recommended her a great book about single women and feminism, bet she hasn't read that either. Shame, it's a really good book.

 

[equationgirl]

Is it just me that hears the implicit sneer at working class women here?

Nope - it's there. Also the sneer at those of us who aren't in our twenties anymore.

 

[ymu]

Oh well, if they're women they'll automatically know what other women think, and because women are congenitally better than men and would never turn into oppressors if the power were all in their hands, that must make it all right.

Jebus.

 

[cesare]

Is it just me that hears the implicit sneer at working class women here?

Educated, smart and young as elitist rightful leaders, sorta thing.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Is it just me that hears the implicit sneer at working class women here?

In among the 'ums' above, she referred to herself as working class.

 

[weepiper]

In among the 'ums' above, she referred to herself as working class.

this bit?

The idea of slut pride is also about working-class pride. It's about taking something that is tossed to us and made to make us feel small

 

[cesare]

I can understand "um" when presenting, especially if a bit ill-prepared/lacking in confidence because it's thinking time and a lot of people unused to presenting do it. It adds to the lack of coherency when transcribed though! And especially daft to do it on purpose ie to write it eg in tweets.

 

[butchersapron]

If anyone wants to compare Selma James with lp have a good listen to this brilliant and inspiring interview:
http://www.againstthegrain.org/search/node/Selma James

 

[sihhi]

The [audience response] bitis horrible.

I don't understand, anyway I'm bemused by the talk:

"I mean I first rediscovered feminism through the internet, right, I first realised that there was an enormous community of people like me who- difficult bitches who felt and thought like me out there because of the internet because of things like Feministing and the F-Word and PandaGone and communities like that and I think that women everywhere women are finding each other and talking to each other about politics in a new and important way because of, because the internet allows us to, alright? And that's important in organising women's protests, but as I said the internet is the most [heavy stress] violently misogynistic public space that we have right now. This is a serious, enormous problem [heavy stress] , women are being chased out of public space online, women are being chased out of organising online because we're afraid. We're made to feel afraid of violence, of retribution either physical violence or psychic violence. Bullying on the internet is incredibly easy and people believe that it is OK people believe that sexual violence on the internet is not real violence and at the moment I feel like we're approaching a tipping point we're not there quite yet but I feel like we're approaching a tipping point in terms of women's right to be in that space. We need to take back the net like we had a take back the night because, um oh I just, just made that up, let's copywrite it. Um we really do need a fightback from women in those spaces there I've done a bit of writing about sexism online but if you'd like to come and talk to me afterwards I can point you in the direction of a couple of campaigns."

 

[rekil]

In among the 'ums' above, she referred to herself as working class.

Worth requoting that bit.

The idea of slut pride is also about working-class pride. It's about taking something that is tossed to us and made to make us feel small and ashamed and taking that back and saying no this is how we want to live our lives we need to be able to do it freely without punishment and yeeaah.

Fees per term for the right proper working class Brighton College. And oh look you get membership of the past pupils support club thing thrown in and everything.

 

[sihhi]

If anyone wants to compare Selma James with lp have a good listen to this brilliant and inspiring interview:
http://www.againstthegrain.org/search/node/Selma James

Angela Davis when she was a Communist tore into the idea of wages for housework as a meaningful working-class goal to organise around, instead focusing on demanding socialised free childcare outside the privatised home as a more meaningful one.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Fees per term for the right proper working class Brighton College. And oh look you get membership of the past pupils support club thing thrown in and everything.

The cost of her hairdos are probably out of the reach of working class people.

 

[cesare]

The cost of her hairdos are probably out of the reach of working class people.

I reckon she's more likely to make a "sight more working class than yow" point by bigging up buying a bottle of Clairols in Superdrug and getting pink dye all over the bathroom of the hovel.

 

[past caring]

I am failing to see any connection here so that 'slut pride' is also 'working-class pride' - what the fuck does she even think she's on about?

 

[past caring]

Unless it's some assumption on lp's part that, you know, working-class women all like it.

Or something equally mad.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

I reckon she's more likely to make a "sight more working class than yow" point by bigging up buying a bottle of Clairols in Superdrug and getting pink dye all over the bathroom of the hovel.

Something else she would lie about.

 

[cesare]

I am failing to see any connection here so that 'slut pride' is also 'working-class pride' - what the fuck does she even think she's on about?

There isn't a connection. Unless she equates "slut" with working class.

 

[Belushi]

I like the way she equates being educated and being smart.

 

[weepiper]

I am failing to see any connection here so that 'slut pride' is also 'working-class pride' - what the fuck does she even think she's on about?

She's trying to say slutwalks are taking back the original meaning of the word 'slut' which was a non-sexual insult at a working-class woman, you dirty little slattern because you spend your life cleaning out coal ranges kind of thing, which is frankly bollocks. Slutwalk's got nothing to do with that.

 

[sihhi]

copliker

The idea of slut pride is also about working-class pride. It's about taking something that is tossed to us and made to make us feel small and ashamed and taking that back and saying no this is how we want to live our lives we need to be able to do it freely without punishment and yeeaah.

Nick Lezard did the same thing with "slob".

https://twitter.com/Nicklezard

"Writer, boulevardier, slob, bon vivant, vulgarian."

Slob Pride. Worldwide.

 

[cesare]

Something else she would lie about.

Nah, she probably is and would be outraged at any allegations that she's not. The bigger lie lies in aping what she perceives as characteristics of the working class, and thinking she won't get called on it.

 

[past caring]

She's trying to say slutwalks are taking back the original meaning of the word 'slut' which was a non-sexual insult at a working-class woman, you dirty little slattern because you spend your life cleaning out coal ranges kind of thing, which is frankly bollocks. Slutwalk's got nothing to do with that.

Like what I said then.

So she's proper bonkers in the nut, this one, as well as the bluffer, dim-wit, snob and fraud that we've already identified her as being.

 

[Firky]

I like the way she equates being educated with being smart.

People do, I've seen it on here, "braindead northern housewives" being a fairly recent one and as such it largely goes unnoticed. It's one of those assumptions that gets my back up more than most. Also not quite the same but Owen Jones and his "braindead trolls" aren't braindead trolls, they're usually people with a legitimate criticism of something he said - but unfortunately for them they're just another username on twitter and not a name in the paper.

/derail

 

[rekil]

I like the way she equates being educated and being smart.

She said that's what Paul Mason wrote but it'd have to be checked I spose.

 

[weepiper]

Cleverest girl in the cleverest school, because only girls who go to clever schools are smart and opinionated. Or capable of leadership.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

I like the way she equates being educated and being smart.

It's common, sadly. Reminds me of a student who once tried to shut me down by saying he had an A level in history.

 

[SpineyNorman]

did she really just conflate the struggle for women's rights with wanting a spaceship or did i imagine it

I want a space ship too. Does that mean I'm gonna have to stop being a misogynist and get into feminism and that?

 

[smokedout]

no, you can be captain kirk