Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

In 2006 Hensher says "One of the consolations of middle age is, surely, not caring very much what people think." In that spirit: Philip Hensher - a walking coma of wasted genetic material - is a crybaby arsehole.

Laurie Penny's talk is here -

I will listen to it again before commenting properly but

"Particularly on the internet, which is where we go to organise, it's not the reason we organise, all these headlines over the last couple of years facebook is causing revolution. Um it's not that simple guys but the internet is certainly public space, it's absolutely where we go to organise and form our movements and make communities happen and the internet is becoming a less and less safe space for women um I don't think anybody can disagree that that's happening right now, I almost (heavy stress on first syllable) had to not come to this talk actually because I had various online stalkers threaten to come and disrupt or hurt me and it was very scary. Um anybody, anybody with a public profile online faces this kind of this, people are spiteful, violent, intimidating, women are being chased off public spaces online, chased off political spaces online, women across the spectrum but particularly women on the left um and um it's become this trenchant violent and frustrated sexual hatred and I feel that online is the place where it's most obvious that women's space within the movement whatever this movement is, is still contested."

Response: Name the threatening sexists and their emails - let's make mince meat out of these misogynists.

 

[weepiper]

Um it's not that simple guys

she's doing it again

 

[frogwoman]

thing is there is some nasty fucking shit on the internet like people saying that people should be raped and so on, and people tend to think that the anonymity gives them a right to say all sorts of shit.

that's not what's happening here though and of course i think we'll hear more and more of this sort of thing over the next few years and it's going to tie into the whole agenda of trying to police the internet.

Also most of the prosecutions probably wont involve ordinary people but celebrities complaining over somebody taking the piss out their hair or something.

 

[frogwoman]

You think repression on the level of china etc can't happen here, it can because it begins with stuff like this.I do agree that people who send death threats etc should be dealt with by the courts but there are already laws to deal with that and we know due to the woeful response by law enforcement to crimes like rape, stalking, etc, that it will be dealt with inadequately.

this "trolling" shit would be and is used to try and shut down online criticism.

 

[Belushi]

There is some unacceptable shit hurled around on the net but what they're really complaining about, and I don't just mean Laurie, is the end of deference. Newspapers are dying, the internet is the future and on the internet the readership answers back, disagrees, argues. You live and die by the strength of your arguement and research and if it's duff it will get ripped to shreds.

 

[DotCommunist]

the very structure of the net precludes effective censorship though, even the much wanked about great firewall can be bypassed with a VPN and a determined user.


If there had been strong state influence at the ground floor designing this haphazard thing then maybe- but too late now. Its a system designed for information exxchange and theres not much too be done about that now by states who don't like what information is being exchanged

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah most of the people will never get prosecuted even those who say really unacceptable shit, the whole idea though is to introduce the idea that slagging somebody off online is A Bad Thing tho

 

[equationgirl]

In 2006 Hensher says "One of the consolations of middle age is, surely, not caring very much what people think." In that spirit: Philip Hensher - a walking coma of wasted genetic material - is a crybaby arsehole.

Laurie Penny's talk is here -

I will listen to it again before commenting properly but

"Particularly on the internet, which is where we go to organise, it's not the reason we organise, all these headlines over the last couple of years facebook is causing revolution. Um it's not that simple guys but the internet is certainly public space, it's absolutely where we go to organise and form our movements and make communities happen and the internet is becoming a less and less safe space for women um I don't think anybody can disagree that that's happening right now, I almost (heavy stress on first syllable) had to not come to this talk actually because I had various online stalkers threaten to come and disrupt or hurt me and it was very scary. Um anybody, anybody with a public profile online faces this kind of this, people are spiteful, violent, intimidating, women are being chased off public spaces online, chased off political spaces online, women across the spectrum but particularly women on the left um and um it's become this trenchant violent and frustrated sexual hatred and I feel that online is the place where it's most obvious that women's space within the movement whatever this movement is, is still contested."

Response: Name the threatening sexists and their emails - let's make mince meat out of these misogynists.

I don't agree that women are being chased out off the internet at all. Where's her evidence that any women, let alone those on the left, have been 'chased off ' in this way?

 

[Bakunin]

While I thoroughly agree that the web is home to some downright undesirables, there's no ignoring that, has anyone else spotted the logic fail in her complaining about being picked on by groups of 'haters' and then seemingly thinking that gathering her own bunch of sycophants to shout down anyone passing adverse comment is a good idea?

 

[nino_savatte]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/disagree-with-me-sure-but-dont-wish-me-dead-8463835.html

what a cunt

There's zero comparison between him and Mary Beard, who's all right in my book. Hensher's a dick.

 

[smokedout]

thing is there is some nasty fucking shit on the internet like people saying that people should be raped and so on, and people tend to think that the anonymity gives them a right to say all sorts of shit.

that's not what's happening here though and of course i think we'll hear more and more of this sort of thing over the next few years and it's going to tie into the whole agenda of trying to police the internet.

Also most of the prosecutions probably wont involve ordinary people but celebrities complaining over somebody taking the piss out their hair or something.

I bet Katie Price gets more shit on an average day then laurie has had in her online life, but as has been said, its not about the really nasty shit, it's about people she considers on her side not accepting her laying down the law - that's what makes her angry, not EDL trolls and green ink dickheads

 

[frogwoman]

I'M IN CONTROL HERE!

 

[ymu]

There's zero comparison between him and Mary Beard, who's all right in my book. Hensher's a dick.

Mary Beard aims at the misogynists, not everybody who is critical. Big difference.

 

[rekil]

Numerous emails of support. Check.

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Every so often when I've forgotten why I do all this, I get an email from a teenage girl asking for advice and it makes everything better.

 

[Firky]

Stacey Dooley reminds me of Laurie Penny.

Dooley went to Greece too. Same sort of moronic shit but aimed at a slightly different audience.

To be honest I've never watched her for more than three minutes as she has a horrible whiny voice and is shocked and appalled every little thing. It makes for difficult viewing. But beyond the presentation there's really not much difference between Dooley and Penny, there's no real substance to either of them.

In the first episode of the series Stacy visits Greece to see how austerity measures have dramatically affected the lives of young Greeks, leaving many unemployed, angry and all unsure about their futures. In the second episode Stacey heads to Ireland to where she meets a group of young protesters angry at the financial mess they have inherited and in the final episode she travels to Japan where an entire generation have experienced two decades of an economic slump.

 

[nino_savatte]

Mary Beard aims at the misogynists, not everybody who is critical. Big difference.

Aye, very true.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

this "trolling" shit would be and is used to try and shut down online criticism.

There is some unacceptable shit hurled around on the net but what they're really complaining about, and I don't just mean Laurie, is the end of deference

Precisely...after the 'years of struggle', she feels she's earned some respect...and the braying mob had better learn their place or they can fuck right off her Internet. It's only the tragedy of her congenital self-awareness deficiency that prevents her seeing she's coming across like Hyacinth Bucket on a hen night in Liverpool.

But she's gotta put up or shut up. Name, shame or shut your yap.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

 

[ymu]

Stacey Dooley reminds me of Laurie Penny.

Dooley went to Greece too. Same sort of moronic shit but aimed at a slightly different audience.

To be honest I've never watched her for more than three minutes as she has a horrible whiny voice and is shocked and appalled every little thing. It makes for difficult viewing. But beyond the presentation there's really not much difference between Dooley and Penny, there's no real substance to either of them.

That's ridiculous. Since when was Dooley a sneering Oxbridge type who already knows it all? She's the exact fucking opposite, even if she is being used by the Oxbridge types who commission her to do the innocent abroad thing.

 

[Bakunin]

View attachment 28082

 

[smokedout]

That's ridiculous. Since when was Dooley a sneering Oxbridge type who already knows it all? She's the exact fucking opposite, even if she is being used by the Oxbridge types who commission her to do the innocent abroad thing.

id never heard of her and in just 2 minutes of watching something on youtube its obvious she's nothing like Laurie - was quite shocked that the beeb had given someone like her a serious slot

 

[Firky]

£10 loads of replies from people saying they have never heard of her but defend her all the same.

That's ridiculous. Since when was Dooley a sneering Oxbridge type who already knows it all? She's the exact fucking opposite, even if she is being used by the Oxbridge types who commission her to do the innocent abroad thing.

You quoted me but never seemed to read it:

I've never watched her for more than three minutes.

I know fuck all about her, she simply reminds me of LP (the brief moments I have caught her on TV). Obviously you're more informed than me and by the sounds of it not only watched her 'work' but, Googled her educational background etc. I haven't, nor have I any wish to. But I have seen her briefly on BBC 3 where she's whined in a little girly voice that it's terrible that X Y or Z can't have "nice things" and how terrible the world is and for that she reminded me of LP.

There's often no real logic to why people / objects remind you of something.

 

[Firky]

To clarify why she reminds me of LP, I should probably say it comes across as a much of a hobby for Dooley as it does Laurie. Yet, admittedly I can't really say one way or another as I know fuck all about her or have watched her for any length of time.

Is she decent then, ymo? Most stuff on BBC3 is best avoided

id never heard of her

I win!

 

[smokedout]

no you fucking don't, you posted after i'd said it you daft twat

 

[tufty79]

I saw stacey dooley's documentary about 'gay conversion therapy' in the states a few months back.. I thought it was going to be terrible and ended up suprised by how good it was, and how well she came across.. I've been told that the prog she did about luton/the edl (i think?) is worth watching as well.
/my 2p

 

[Firky]

no you fucking don't, you posted after i'd said it you daft twat

How long have you been on forums and you still don't know how they work? In the time it has taken me to point out the painfully obvious to you in this post, people could have replied.

 

[smokedout]

yeah right

 

[Firky]

As tufty has just demonstrated.

yeah right... defeated by logic and truth, damn my predictability.

 

[ymu]

To clarify why she reminds me of LP, I should probably say it comes across as a much of a hobby for Dooley as it does Laurie. Yet, admittedly I can't really say one way or another as I know fuck all about her or have watched her for any length of time.

Is she decent then, ymo? Most stuff on BBC3 is best avoided



I win!

She started out on a programme where they took a group of consumer-oriented young people to India to live and work in the same conditions as the people who make the stuff we buy. Essentially, reality star made good.

From what I've seen of the latest series, they use her as the (genuinely) innocent interviewer to build up the argument they want to make. The style is a bit Louis Theroux without the knowingness.

Not immune from criticism, but a million miles from what this thread is about.

 

[smokedout]

in cases of dispute it comes down to the time stamp obviously

anyway don't want a fight about it, i've argued with owen jones, sonia poulton, deborah orr and philip hensher this week, normals don't really do it for me anymore