Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[weepiper]

I await the 'but Barton's been nicked for street violence, and done time, he's oppressed working class' comment.

He's an attention-seeking fud.

 

[el-ahrairah]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

*shrug*

 

[el-ahrairah]

so now they're just an interest group.

in the same way that any movement is.

 

[sihhi]

it's radical because it is not liberal.

To use your analysis: why are you trying to tell radicals what radical means.

Being a passive supporter of the Labour Party is radical, dammit.

http://lead4women.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/302/

"I absolutely agree that Ed has been the most pro-feminist leader the party has ever had (I am a lifelong supporter of Labour by the way)"

 

[sihhi]

Remarkably outside of the commeentariat gold fish bowl there is a much better Twitter row around Joey Barton

Hardly a row, more like one arrogant rich footballer no one else likes.

Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
My 'farmfoods' tweet offended lots o people. That delights me. Whilst I'm at it, claiming benefits isn't a life choice. Get a job...

12 Jan Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
Great this twitter, its lets people whose mums work in farmfoods whilst claiming benefits, have a pop at successful folk like me? Brilliant.

 

[Pickman's model]

in the same way that any movement is.

utterly pointless for you to say it then

 

[cesare]

What about the ones who talk about the "PinV" stuff?

That's just short for Penis In Vagina isn't it? Is there something else going on?

 

[frogwoman]

That's just short for Penis In Vagina isn't it? Is there something else going on?

yeah it is but if you look on some of these blogs there is some mental stuff about it.

 

[cesare]

yeah it is but if you look on some of these blogs there is some mental stuff about it.

What sort of mental stuff?

 

[frogwoman]

What sort of mental stuff?

stuff about how piv stops people caring about women's equality because they "love orgasms" too much, that sort of thing

 

[Balbi]

in the same way that any movement is.

True, every movement has its kooks, and they can get pretty nasty - the anti-gender radfems material I have read is just awful distortions of their various percieved enemies. Which can be boiled down to anything with a cock or who had one in some cases. Not all, but some.

 

[Balbi]

stuff about how piv stops people caring about women's equality because they "love orgasms" too much, that sort of thing

Orgasms are the opiate of the stealing the duvet afterwards masses.

 

[cesare]

stuff about how piv stops people caring about women's equality because they "love orgasms" too much, that sort of thing

Just sounds a bit silly

 

[audiotech]

a blanket? do you mean it is snowing?

Yes, and laying. For example: I'm now going to have to remove the blanket of snow covering the car for the second time today.

The solicitors haven't rung yet either.

 

[frogwoman]

Just sounds a bit silly

yeah i know, i don't think it's representative of the majority of feminists

 

[The39thStep]

That's just short for Penis In Vagina isn't it? Is there something else going on?

Careful there may be minors on here

 

[cesare]

Careful there may be minors on here

Getting their birds and bees ed from the internet

 

[cesare]

yeah i know, i don't think it's representative of the majority of feminists

I'd be very surprised if it was

 

[Pickman's model]

Careful there may be minors on here

or miners or mynahs

 

[The39thStep]

Just sounds a bit silly

I am old enough to remeber a period when if as a male you were at a lefty party you had a dilemna that if you started dancing with a woman with fem earings that you might be accused of taking their space and then if you erred on the side of caution they would tell you that you didn't show any interest in them. I used to spend most of the time in the kitchen.

 

[cesare]

I am old enough to remeber a period when if as a male you were at a lefty party you had a dilemna that if you started dancing with a woman with fem earings that you might be accused of taking their space and then if you erred on the side of caution they would tell you that you didn't show any interest in them. I used to spend most of the time in the kitchen.

Sounds like the sort of party I would have swerved

 

[cesare]

 

[el-ahrairah]

What about the ones who talk about the "PinV" stuff?

I dunno because I don't know what that is. Sorry.

 

[el-ahrairah]

To use your analysis: why are you trying to tell radicals what radical means.

Being a passive supporter of the Labour Party is radical, dammit.

http://lead4women.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/302/

"I absolutely agree that Ed has been the most pro-feminist leader the party has ever had (I am a lifelong supporter of Labour by the way)"

whoever said it was consistent?

 

[sihhi]

I am old enough to remeber a period when if as a male you were at a lefty party you had a dilemna that if you started dancing with a woman with fem earings that you might be accused of taking their space and then if you erred on the side of caution they would tell you that you didn't show any interest in them. I used to spend most of the time in the kitchen.

How Did this happen? In what way? It's not my era so more light would be helpful,

today on the 1980s feminism, opinions tend towards two extremes either
a. describing it as a separatist diversion:- womens' groups frequently attacking cross-gender leftist groups of not caring about womens' issues but then attacking them for discussing women's problems; exceedingly strict (no male boys over 12) policies in the squatted womens' refuges from domestic violence/collectives.
b. saying the negative picture 1980s feminism is wholly a subsequent exaggeration trying hard and picking out single bad examples to tar the whole lot.

There's so much myth and counter-myth it's hard to tell the wood from the trees.

 

[el-ahrairah]

the way i look at it is that feminism needs to both marxist and radical (by which i mean, not liberal). if you miss out on either of those strands you're not getting it right. of course, that leads me open to charges of telling feminists what feminism is. but such is life. you can't avoid stepping on egos in the pursuit of being pure in theory and practise being correct winning arguments on the internet.

 

[The39thStep]

How Did this happen? In what way? It's not my era so more light would be helpful,

today on the 1980s feminism, opinions tend towards two extremes either
a. describing it as a separatist diversion:- womens' groups frequently attacking cross-gender leftist groups of not caring about womens' issues but then attacking them for discussing women's problems; exceedingly strict (no male boys over 12) policies in the squatted womens' refuges from domestic violence/collectives.
b. saying the negative picture 1980s feminism is wholly a subsequent exaggeration trying hard and picking out single bad examples to tar the whole lot.

There's so much myth and counter-myth it's hard to tell the wood from the trees.

I am a big advocate of the subsequent exageration approach.

Seriously I will give this some thought and get back later , obviously it will be a mixed picture and sometimes you remember the bad times more than the good.

 

[el-ahrairah]

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2013/01/20130122t1830vSZT.aspx

Women, Protest and the Nature of Female Rebellion

Ralph Miliband Programme: movement, protest and social change

Date: Tuesday 22 January 2013
Time: 6.30-8pm
Venue: Sheikh Zayed Theatre, New Academic Building
Speaker: Laurie Penny
Taking in Pussy Riot and the 2011 uprisings, and stretching back to the Paris Commune, a contextual look at how the rage and pride of women is personal, political – and endlessly powerful.
Laurie Penny is a journalist, blogger and author. She is currently a columnist and reporter for The Independent.



I thought she got a p45 from the indie?

 

[Balbi]

London-centric fuckers

 

[weepiper]

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2013/01/20130122t1830vSZT.aspx

Women, Protest and the Nature of Female Rebellion

Ralph Miliband Programme: movement, protest and social change

Date: Tuesday 22 January 2013
Time: 6.30-8pm
Venue: Sheikh Zayed Theatre, New Academic Building
Speaker: Laurie Penny
Taking in Pussy Riot and the 2011 uprisings, and stretching back to the Paris Commune, a contextual look at how the rage and pride of women is personal, political – and endlessly powerful.
Laurie Penny is a journalist, blogger and author. She is currently a columnist and reporter for The Independent.

Ugh. Hate it. Hate this being spoken for by people who know nothing of our lives pish.