Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[ViolentPanda]

I think that's totally unfair froggy.

You're only saying that because you don't 100% agree with her.

 

[weepiper]

On who?

the idea that radfems just hate everyone on some hierarchical basis. I wouldn't call myself a radfem at all but i know plenty of women who do and they don't all hate men. Or straight women or transexuals. Don't let the strident middle class Burchills and Bindels talk for all of them.

 

[Balbi]

You're only saying that because you don't 100% agree with her.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bit harsh.

Knowing firky, he probably means "hanging" in some kind of sex-swing modelled on something he saw on a documentary about the Playboy Mansion.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Don't let the strident middle class Burchills and Bindels talk for all of them.

They are pretty poor exemplars of human beings, let alone radical feminists.

 

[frogwoman]

the idea that radfems just hate everyone on some hierarchical basis. I wouldn't call myself a radfem at all but i know plenty of women who do and they don't all hate men. Or straight women or transexuals. Don't let the strident middle class Burchills and Bindels talk for all of them.

yeah sorry, i know that website doesn't speak for everyone who calls themselves a radical feminist. its a disgrace that these people are appropriating the language of feminism to their own purposes.

 

[The39thStep]

they're only a minority of feminists, tbf

What is the majority made up of?

 

[Fedayn]

the idea that radfems just hate everyone on some hierarchical basis. I wouldn't call myself a radfem at all but i know plenty of women who do and they don't all hate men. Or straight women or transexuals. Don't let the strident middle class Burchills and Bindels talk for all of them.

They're fucking nutjobs, as exemplified by those who toe the PinV line...

 

[DaveCinzano]

What is the majority made up of?

Really sensitive men.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the idea that radfems just hate everyone on some hierarchical basis. I wouldn't call myself a radfem at all but i know plenty of women who do and they don't all hate men. Or straight women or transexuals. Don't let the strident middle class Burchills and Bindels talk for all of them.

The humourous thing being that both Burchill and Bindel see themselves as utterly working-class, despite living in middle-class areas and being in professions.

 

[weepiper]

its a disgrace that these people are appropriating the language of feminism to their own purposes.

I can agree with that.

 

[frogwoman]

What is the majority made up of?

women who are simply concerned about equality of the sexes and so on i'd imagine, feminism is a pretty wide ranging thing and these people are only in a minority.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Really sensitive men.

Yep. They have to use factor 50, apparently.

 

[Balbi]

I've got a radfem mate who won't countenance trans women in her feminist action groups and believes it's about sex, the specialness of women in childbearing and such. It starts and stops at Dworkin.

 

[frogwoman]

I've got a radfem mate who won't countenance trans women in her feminist action groups and believes it's about sex, the specialness of women in childbearing and such. It starts and stops at Dworkin.

yeah this is the kind of thing i mean, that, and the PinvV mentalness, i dont mean every radical feminist, because obviously radical feminism means lots of different things depending on who it is ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

yeah sorry, i know that website doesn't speak for everyone who calls themselves a radical feminist. its a disgrace that these people are appropriating the language of feminism to their own purposes.

That's always the way, though. You find a rhetoric that suits the promotion of your message, and you use it, whether or not it's accurate. In this case those appropriating the language are feminist, but don't make clear that they're not representive of feminism as a whole.

And why would they make that clear? As a "fringe", the trans-loathing feminists don't want to represent themselves as a fringe, they want people to get the impression that they represent a current in modern feminism, not a piss-dribble down the leg of modern feminism.

 

[The39thStep]

women who are simply concerned about equality of the sexes and so on i'd imagine, feminism is a pretty wide ranging thing and these people are only in a minority.

what about women who don't see themselves as feminists but who are concerned about equality of the sexes? I know quite a few like who don't want anything to do with what they see as feminism.

 

[frogwoman]

I can agree with that.

yeah sorry i didn't mean to imply that everyone believes this type of stuff, sorry if my post came across that way.

 

[frogwoman]

what about women who don't see themselves as feminists but who are concerned about equality of the sexes? I know quite a few like who don't want anything to do with what they see as feminism.

i think a lot of that will be due to the damage done by stuff like this ...

 

[Balbi]

A corruption of that Jeff Daniels' line in newsroom.

They may call themselves radical feminists, but radical feminists shouldn't.

They're reactionary, surely, if they're just sticking to their version of feminism?

 

[DaveCinzano]

It's 'radical feminism' because it gets to the root.

 

[frogwoman]

It's 'radical feminism' because it gets to the root.

It's not really anything i recognise as feminism tho. they refer to themselves as radical feminists tho ...

 

[Balbi]

Get your fucking knife away from my root

 

[Bakunin]

And like misogynists do, they'll excuse their misandry.

Their misandry is, however, entirely justified because...

 

[audiotech]

My ex was a radfem, as were most of her friends at the time. They all shared a house in a women's co-op. I was invited round for tea. That was a tester for a sole man I can tell you! Mary Wollestonecraft, Dworkin, Shiela Rowbotham, Egyptian feminists et al. I read widely on the subject. A number of co-op members, who defined themselves as lesbians, had men on the side. I kid you not. Did I read somewhere that Beyond the Fragments is being republished?

 

[BigTom]

Not sure that those groups are safe for unaccompanied people of that age.

Well i only know stuff from twitter but afaik people from those groups supported her through a period of homelessness last year into housing and back to college.
I'd hope that there are enough responsible and thoughtful adults amongst them to ensure that she is safe, and from afar they look to have taken their responsibilities towards an unaccompanied teenager seriously.
She's not the only 16-18 yr old radicalised by ema & tuition fee stuff, there's four or five of that age i know from twitter/demos in London, who are all friends, who seem to be around alarm and solfed. Not sure why but i feel like that makes a difference too.

 

[butchersapron]

My ex was a radfem, as were most of her friends at the time. They all shared a house in a women's co-op. I was invited round for tea. That was a tester for a sole man I can tell you! Mary Wollestonecraft, Dworkin, Shiela Rowbotham, Egyptian feminists et al. I read widely on the subject. A number of co-op members, who defined themselves as lesbians, had men on the side. I kid you not. Did I read somewhere that Beyond the Fragments is being republished?

You've never actually read it have you?

 

[audiotech]

You've never actually read it have you?

Many years ago now.

Spare Rib monthly too.

Edit: Interesting article from Feminist Review (1980). The Long and Winding Roads (Reflections on Beyond the Fragments).

 

[butchersapron]

Many years ago now.

Spare Rib monthly too.

Edit: Interesting article from Feminist Review (1980). The Long and Winding Roads (Reflections on Beyond the Fragments).

Have you read it?

 

[The39thStep]

My ex was a radfem, as were most of her friends at the time. They all shared a house in a women's co-op. I was invited round for tea. That was a tester for a sole man I can tell you! Mary Wollestonecraft, Dworkin, Shiela Rowbotham, Egyptian feminists et al. I read widely on the subject. A number of co-op members, who defined themselves as lesbians, had men on the side. I kid you not. Did I read somewhere that Beyond the Fragments is being republished?

That's all they will have wanted; some smart arse bloke reading up on feminism so that he can make out he is enlightened