Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[SpineyNorman]

It also completely ignores the fact that people in "oppressed groups" can also be cunts, we are all the product of capitalist society and will have internalised some of the values and social prejudices no matter how oppressed we are.

And that, when you go far enough down the rabbit hole, we're all in oppressed groups.

I'm an ugly ex-junkie and you're all cunts, especially the lasses

 

[Balbi]

The thing is though, this idea that people should just say what they want if they're part of an oppressed group, and be as aggressive as they want in doing so (please correct me if I'm getting that wrong) is just stupid and apolitical. It's clearly counterproductive - it's just going to alienate people who, were they treated with a bit of respect and were you to try and find common cause with - would probably be on your side.

Which is my point. Don't be a dick in challenging, and don't be a dick in being challenged. But also, context is king. There's adifference between challenging a UKIP member and a new member of an activist group, between your friends and family and someone giving you grief in the street.

 

[Balbi]

I'm not looking for a reason to say whatever I want in order to offend. I'm trying to see if the theory on which the whole thing rests could reasonably object to someone who did under its own terms. I don't think it can...not in the way I've seen it explained. Obviously, outright gratuitous abuse is inexcusable regardless...but I'm not even sure that minor group-specific objections fare any better...unless you resort to an expectation of basic courtesy.
If the whole thing's just being courteous then that's fine...courtesy always did involve knowing different things upset different people...why the new name...and theorising...and 'experts'?...who must be really nice people, now I think about it.

It seems to be courtesy, understanding and support - including and considering more. And being willing to take a moment from your righteous dispensing of fire at a target, for someone to ask you to make a minor change to make the fire more inclusively aimed.

 

[equationgirl]

So when Laurie sent me that email where she said 'I think I know where you're going wrong with identity politics' - was that cuntsplaining or checksplaining? I'm confused

Oxbridgesplaining

 

[equationgirl]

And that, when you go far enough down the rabbit hole, we're all in oppressed groups.

I'm an ugly ex-junkie and you're all cunts, especially the lasses

I love you too spiney

 

[Greebo]

That's a good analogy for a lot of progressive politics.

And don't I wish that it wasn't.

 

[Greebo]

We need a splaining word for when stuck up oxbridge twats try and tell everyone else about oppression.<snip>

Tossplaining

 

[DaveCinzano]

Oxbridgesplaining

OXBRAINING

 

[SpineyNorman]

Twittersplaining

 

[DotCommunist]

you'llgetfarmersfromtoomuchstraining

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

Windinyournecksplaining

 

[equationgirl]

Twittersplaining

Twattersplaining

 

[Brixton Hatter]

i think i might have to take back what I said earlier in the thread about Zoe Stavri possibly being more sensible than LP:

1. 12 Jan​
   Another Angry Woman ‏@stavvers
   Just think. If Moore had just apologised for her initial comment, we could have all moved on with our lives.
   
   Expand

Are people gonna spend the whole of 2013 moaning about this? Don't they realise they are being trolled to fuck by all and sundry? It's a good debate, but it's got to the point where journos are simply arguing with each other for ego/revenge points, and nothing changes in the real world.

Which is partly the point of this whole thread.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

maybe I'll get poshsplained after saying that

 

[Buckaroo]

And that, when you go far enough down the rabbit hole, we're all in oppressed groups.

I'm an ugly ex-junkie and you're all cunts, especially the lasses

Dead on mate and all those Feminazis are mingers anyway, except for the Brazilian trannies, they're hot, not that i'm a gaylord or anything and most of them are mixed race and stuff anyway, and not even real women! Fucking hell, it all gets so bloody complicated!

 

[weepiper]

elitesplaining? advantisplained? headstartboughtbydaddysplaining?

 

[Firky]

Twitter is recommending me someone called @SmashKyriarchy

I daren't look

 

[equationgirl]

Twitter is recommending me someone called @SmashKyriarchy

I daren't look

LOOK!!!! the monothought clique commands you.

 

[Firky]

Ah, they're American. They're forgiven.

 

[rekil]

Abfabiansplaining

 

[equationgirl]

Ah, they're American. They're forgiven.

Yanksplaining.

 

[Balbi]

Chamsplagning.

 

[rekil]

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Re: Burchill, transmisogyny and bullshit. Don't worry, guys and girls, I'm on this. *rolls up sleeves*

 

[Firky]

Nicholas Lezard ‏@Nicklezard
Someone's taken the "leftwing" out of my (teeny-weeny-weeny) Wikipedia entry!

 

[rekil]

make it stop

 

[Firky]

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Re: Burchill, transmisogyny and bullshit. Don't worry, guys and girls, I'm on this. *rolls up sleeves*

FUCK OFF.

 

[equationgirl]

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Re: Burchill, transmisogyny and bullshit. Don't worry, guys and girls, I'm on this. *rolls up sleeves*

Oh, goody.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

FUCK OFF.

You fancy her, you do

 

[Firky]

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Don't have any suicidal men to exploit or accusations of rape, so will use this, please retweat me.

 

[Firky]

You fancy her, you do

I fancy hanging her and her kind from a tree.