Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[frogwoman]

I always thought herbert read was firky.

 

[Cornetto]

The bean bag rides again.

 

[Cornetto]

I always thought herbert read was firky.

i lent him my log in, he became me and got perma banned, crazy times. A wet fart of internet history.

 

[love detective]

Daz spittle was pissed spittle mixed with garlic breath

 

[butchersapron]

Where do all the union full timers/comrades/paid by get their jobs?

 

[Cornetto]

I have no idea i get 8 hours facility time a week for UCU activity

 

[butchersapron]

Up the students and their lecturers facility time

 

[Cornetto]

up the mediocrity

 

[butchersapron]

yet you do it.

 

[Cornetto]

yet you do it.

I kept my head down for a year, then the branch secretary approached me as he was aware I had been a secretary in the GMB, he asked me to act as convenor for the city site and organise case work. A mixture of guilt and duty got me, I have always supported others at work; It is dull repetitive work, but without local lay officials unions like UCU don’t run, we are small have limited full timers and rely on branch level organisation, one member supporting another. I would like to give it up, however we have had a lot of experienced case workers retire or take voluntary severance. I don’t think the work place is a place for radical action, in fact over the years I have come round to the thinking that work actually manufactures consent for capitalism and the dominant business culture we operate in ; people are constantly trying to rationalise the utter idiocy imposed on them from above, we are always on the run and never chasing. We have had a few local dispute victories over imposed change and national strike turn out has been solid, it is the little victories that keep me going, getting a fair deal for a colleague or stopping some shit human from exercising nasty unnecessary disciplinary measures.

 

[butchersapron]

I kept my head down for a year, then the branch secretary approached me as he was aware I had been a secretary in the GMB, he asked me to act as convenor for the city site and organise case work. A mixture of guilt and duty got me, I have always supported others at work; It is dull repetitive work, but without local lay officials unions like UCU don’t run, we are small have limited full timers and rely on branch level organisation, one member supporting another. I would like to give it up, however we have had a lot of experienced case workers retire or take voluntary severance. I don’t think the work place is a place for radical action, in fact over the years I have come round to the thinking that work actually manufactures consent for capitalism and the dominant business culture we operate in ; people are constantly trying to rationalise the utter idiocy imposed on them from above, we are always on the run and never chasing. We have had a few local dispute victories over imposed change and national strike turn out has been solid, it is the little victories that keep me going, getting a fair deal for a colleague or stopping some shit human from exercising nasty unnecessary disciplinary measures.

Yet you do it.

 

[Cornetto]

I would not achieve any thing better if i did not do it.

 

[butchersapron]

I would not achieve any thing better if i did not do it.

So what?

 

[Cornetto]

Fair point, who cares, does it really matter?

 

[co-op]

Friday night nihilism ftw.

 

[redsquirrel]

I kept my head down for a year, then the branch secretary approached me as he was aware I had been a secretary in the GMB, he asked me to act as convenor for the city site and organise case work. A mixture of guilt and duty got me, I have always supported others at work; It is dull repetitive work, but without local lay officials unions like UCU don’t run, we are small have limited full timers and rely on branch level organisation, one member supporting another. I would like to give it up, however we have had a lot of experienced case workers retire or take voluntary severance. I don’t think the work place is a place for radical action, in fact over the years I have come round to the thinking that work actually manufactures consent for capitalism and the dominant business culture we operate in ; people are constantly trying to rationalise the utter idiocy imposed on them from above, we are always on the run and never chasing. We have had a few local dispute victories over imposed change and national strike turn out has been solid, it is the little victories that keep me going, getting a fair deal for a colleague or stopping some shit human from exercising nasty unnecessary disciplinary measures.

I've come round to a very similar position.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Where do all the union full timers/comrades/paid by get their jobs?

http://www.tuc.org.uk/the_tuc/index.cfm?mins=48&minors=2&majorsubjectID=19

 

[cesare]

I kept my head down for a year, then the branch secretary approached me as he was aware I had been a secretary in the GMB, he asked me to act as convenor for the city site and organise case work. A mixture of guilt and duty got me, I have always supported others at work; It is dull repetitive work, but without local lay officials unions like UCU don’t run, we are small have limited full timers and rely on branch level organisation, one member supporting another. I would like to give it up, however we have had a lot of experienced case workers retire or take voluntary severance. I don’t think the work place is a place for radical action, in fact over the years I have come round to the thinking that work actually manufactures consent for capitalism and the dominant business culture we operate in ; people are constantly trying to rationalise the utter idiocy imposed on them from above, we are always on the run and never chasing. We have had a few local dispute victories over imposed change and national strike turn out has been solid, it is the little victories that keep me going, getting a fair deal for a colleague or stopping some shit human from exercising nasty unnecessary disciplinary measures.

Does this mean that you're a full timer?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Does this mean that you're a full timer?

8 hours a week would only be fulltime work in a socialist paradise?

 

[cesare]

8 hours a week would only be fulltime work in a socialist paradise?

Daz said 8 hours a week *facility* time, though? I'm confused.

 

[DotCommunist]

we pretend to work they pretend to pay us

 

[The39thStep]

Build the rank and file

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Daz said 8 hours a week *facility* time, though? I'm confused.

yes he does his job for x number of hours but is paid by the employer to spend n (of his total of y hours) hours on his trade union duties as a rep - surely you know about facility time?

 

[cesare]

yes he does his job for x number of hours but is paid by the employer to spend n (of his total of y hours) hours on his trade union duties as a rep - surely you know about facility time?

Yes I do! But he could be a full timer with a number of hours facility time with lots of different employers! Depends how they're organised!

 

[cesare]

I.e. the employer grants the facility time to the union.

 

[The39thStep]

Yes I do! But he could be a full timer with a number of hours facility time with lots of different employers! Depends how they're organised!

They are not organised thats why they sent for the Beanbag

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Yes I do! But he could be a full timer with a number of hours facility time with lots of different employers! Depends how they're organised!

That would be very unusual can't say I've come across that set up.

Anyway in this case he is a rep who does his substantive post for all but 8 hours which he gets to fulfill his duties as a TU official - the confusion I think is his use of the term organiser which is often a title given to full-timers paid by the union.

 

[The39thStep]

That would be very unusual can't say I've come across that set up.

Anyway in this case he is a rep who does his substantive post for all but 8 hours which he gets to fulfill his duties as a TU official - the confusion I think is his use of the term organiser which is often a title given to full-timers paid by the union.

what about the time he spends looking out the window?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Daz said 8 hours a week *facility* time, though? I'm confused.

Facility time is the time off work but still paid by the employer, so that a union representative can do their union work. It is something that will have been agreed between the union and the employer at national level.

edit: Spanky got there first.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I.e. the employer grants the facility time to the union.

facility time is generally allocated to paid employees who are apointed by their union to fulfill certain duties in their own employer - not to employees of other companies (though in very rare circumstances a peripheral (outsourced?) employer may make a financial contribution to the core employer to cover facility time for reps employed by the core employer to carry out duties on behalf of members in the peripheral employer).